Adjustable Wastegate Actuator and the BstC Boost Controller

[turbo89]

Don't worry about orifice sizes right now. Get the car where you have control of the boost and it's not going to shoot a head gasket out the side and go from there.

Well if he has a HD actuator and a small orifice .. he will NEVER be able to get the boost in control

 

[earlbrown]

Orifice size means nothing with tuner style. Fine tuning the gimmiks needs to come after the boost is stable and controllable.


Huntsg, I just noticed you're in PCB. How far are you from Bay Point? There's a chance I'll be heading that direction in the next couple days. If you can't get it, I'll be happy to take a look between beers.

 

[turbo89]

Sorry I must have read wrong ..I thought he was using a stock Y and a factory pulsed wastegate solenoid .. with a controller in addition to that

 

[huntsg]

Earl, I am basically across the street from bay point. Regardless of if I get it or not we should try to meet. We have a few of us here and would enjoy meeting some more fanatics. Let me know!



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[earlbrown]

Cool. You should have it sorted out before I can get on the road. This thread has made it out to be more complex than it really is. Once you run a new line from the turbo to the wastegate you can relax and set the boost where you want it. It really is that simple.

I'm trying to get down there while it's still warm enough to chase dolphins on the jetski. I have a feeling I missed my window! With any luck I'll be able to get my GN back down there for the first time in years this spring too.

 

[huntsg]

The weather is still great. You'll have a blast

 

[dank GN]

Hook it up like this


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[TurboDave]

Well if he has a HD actuator and a small orifice .. he will NEVER be able to get the boost in control

That's BS!! On my 86 I ran a BstC with a stock solenoid, stock Y, and HD actuator for years, and had NO boost control issues. All of those parts are still on the car except I'm now controlling boost with Powerlogger. Still no boost control issues.
The BstC is now on the Wife's 87.

 

[turbo89]

Like I said.. If you run a HD actuator and a Small orifice restrictor ( .028) with a stock wastegate SOLENOID I would love to see you control the boost to say 16 psi .. the BSTC has no way of lowering the boost lower than the ACTUATOR level and with a STOCK .028 ( TTA) or replacement boost will only go up above the HD actuator spring pressure .

This is why I asked if he had a stock GN .~ .040 restrictor or one that was a replacement like the ones found on the TTA's

I still dont understand why people want to eliminate all the stock controls.

 

[earlbrown]

He has stock controls and an overboost condition. You eliminate questionable stock controls for troubleshooting reasons.

Plus, your 'multiple factory orifice size' thing is not quite correct. When GM reissued the 'factory' Y for sale, their new (most likely overseas) supplier messed up and made the orifice size the wrong size. That wasn't for tuning reasons, that was because GM didn't bother to QA their parts and sold them anyways. And on a side note, they were alerted to the problem and didn't care.


You are correct in the fact that all the extra gimmiks can only raise boost above the wastegate's base setting. but a faulty hose, solenoid, wizbang whirlygig, can cause a severe overboost condition by leaking the pressure signal before it gets to the wastegate diaphram. That's why the OP needs to take every one of those out of the loop and re-introduce them one at a time to figure out what the offending character is.

 

[turbo89]

Earl , I Never said they made it for Tuning Reasons .. what i said was I USE DIFFERENT size restrictors to help me DIAL a car in for tuning a certain setup ... why ? because sometimes .010 on the restrictor changes things huge when you burn your own chips and the way the car responds to it.
and that the restrictors we can get now AREN'T the correct ones ... the restrictor is too SMaLL in SIZE hence boost will go up . Try it yourself if you dont believe me.. take your stock GN Y that your running 16 psi on with a street chip and then put in a TTA small orifice Y and dont change anything else... It WILL BE KNock CITY ! I dont agree that the orifice makes no difference ..

Im only trying to help the guy out just as we all are.. he has to look at ALL of the PARTS to see what is causing the OVERBOOST issue... and I am giving him some things that may help him quickly identify
the potentials for OVERBOOSTING and why that happens. IF he sees the actuator is a HD type and identifies the orifice as a "SMALL TYPE" .028 ..and he is using these parts in his boost control ...
he can ADD whatever WIZBANG CONTROLLER he wants .. he is NEVER EVER gonna get the boost LOWER than the actuator.. I have personally have seen some HD actuators that I cant control below 20 psi
If he is using ALL STOCK boost control parts with no leaky hoses .... there are only a few things that can give him a issue.. a solenoid thats stuck open or a incorrect size orifice in the Y ..or a diaphragm thats leaking thats it !
then you have things like mechanical limitations like a hanging puck on the flapper / too small of a wastegate opening.

I agree if there are NO MECHANICAL issues ... the lowest boost he can get is running a simple vacuum line from the compressor to the wastegate straight ... but that too can still OVERBOOST if he has a mechanical issue or diaphragm issue...

dont shoot the messenger .. just giving him some ideas of what all it COULD BE.

Im not trying to make things more complex.. I am just trying to give him more information so that he can understand what all effects BOOST control ... its not as simple as " replace this hose and your good."

 

[Heisenberg]

After chasing my tail for weeks (Earl and TurboDave helped) - I'm only eager to hear what the problem was / is?
Not a whole lot there - so it has to be one of the 3 or 4 usual suspects.

I wager the WG actuator is hanging (or wanting to stay closed)
Diaphram perhaps - although they are pretty stout.

I bet it's some dumb thing like a loose actuator hose.
Which in my case - the silicone line leaked like a sieve without a decent band clamp on it.

At least he has boost - just too much - and won't find a washer in his turbine housing - like some people....

 

[huntsg]

UPDATE! Finally got a chance to make the changes. I hooked the wastegate actuator directly to the turbo tuner style (turned the actuator enough threads to pull the actuator 1/8th of an inch - easy to put on) and made a pass. I didn't even get the pedal to the floor and the boost shot to 26-27 lbs so I let off the gas. I tried it one more time and it felt like a hose let loose (upon post inspection it did not) or maybe the actuator caught, but boost shot up to 26-30lbs with a 'step' due to the catch in the middle of that run. Is this saying that my actuator is shot? I will say that the center of the actuator doesn't line up perfectly with the wastegate arm. In other words the actuator rod rides at the bottom of the diaphragm hole instead of the center. The Powerlogger log is attached. Thanks for all the help and let me know what you think.

 

[turbo89]

UPDATE! Finally got a chance to make the changes. I hooked the wastegate actuator directly to the turbo tuner style (turned the actuator enough threads to pull the actuator 1/8th of an inch - easy to put on) and made a pass. I didn't even get the pedal to the floor and the boost shot to 26-27 lbs so I let off the gas. I tried it one more time and it felt like a hose let loose (upon post inspection it did not) or maybe the actuator caught, but boost shot up to 26-30lbs with a 'step' due to the catch in the middle of that run. Is this saying that my actuator is shot? I will say that the center of the actuator doesn't line up perfectly with the wastegate arm. In other words the actuator rod rides at the bottom of the diaphragm hole instead of the center. The Powerlogger log is attached. Thanks for all the help and let me know what you think.

Rod Bind ?

 

[salvageV6]

Put some regulated compressed air onto the tuner style hose that feeds the wastegate.

See if it moves freely as you SLOWLY increase the air pressure.

What psi. does the arm start to move on the actuator?

And does it move freely to the fully open position.

 

[huntsg]

I hooked the compressed air up to the actuator. 25psi does not move it. I would say that it moves good at around 28-30 psi. At that pressure it moves a few times, but seems to fade the more times I try it in a row.

 

[TurboBob]

replace it

 

[TurboDave]

replace it

For sure!!

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[Pronto]

That's BS!! On my 86 I ran a BstC with a stock solenoid, stock Y, and HD actuator for years, and had NO boost control issues. All of those parts are still on the car except I'm now controlling boost with Powerlogger. Still no boost control issues.
The BstC is now on the Wife's 87.

I agree. I can turn the boost down to 15 or up to 27 by adjusting the rod and BstC. Set the rod to the psi I want then control it +or - about 7 psi.

 

[earlbrown]

I hooked the compressed air up to the actuator. 25psi does not move it. I would say that it moves good at around 28-30 psi. At that pressure it moves a few times, but seems to fade the more times I try it in a row.

It's shot. The diaphragm is ventilated.

See what I mean about getting back to basics and testing one thing at a time?


If I make it down to the beach house before you find one, I'll bring my spare with me.