Affirmative Action

[Red Regal T]

Gees, if I was black, I could blame any misfortune or lost job opportunity on my color. If I sense someone doesn't like me, it could only be one reason. Hey, I go about my business everyday, and whenever something doesn't go my way, well, you know why. If I do get a job, I can take comfort in the fact that the only reason I may have gotten the job is because of my skin color. If people perceive I don't mind taking handouts, and they don't like it, I'll know they're just bigotted.

Being white, I don't have to worry about it. I don't have any failures. I know everyone likes me. My superiors like me. Policeman like me. Bill collectors even let me slide on my financial obligations. Employers will go out of their way to make sure they hire me.....because I'm white, of course. Everything I want, I just, get. Everyone is out to do all they can for me because I'm white. White people don't have to do anything. Just look around, it's obvious. They don't have to try. Being white entitles me to get it all.

 

[killerb]

isnt it ironic that you a white person is complaining about lost jobs and misfortune.so whats your point red regal t?your complaining about the same thing you are trying to erradicate. i could care less about affirmative action,i just want to express the use of the good ol boy network to do the same thing you complain about.it happens alot and you know it.affirmative action did help alot of people get the foot in the door they needed,because without it alot of people would not get a chance to even see the door including WHITE women.they are one of the biggest recipients of affirmative action.this fact seems to be remitted in this discussion.so turn over in bed tonight and give affirmative action a big kiss good night,it helped you pay for that nice gn you drive now.

 

[sixgun86gn]

I wonder how many times a man like Colin Powell took no for an answer.He is proof that skin color has nothing to do with success.I said it is useless in this day and age.I work with some very intelligent and hard working black and hispanic men that are worth everything they get.Unfortunately they are in short supply as most younger such men can't even wear their pants right.I mean,how can anyone respect someone who looks and speaks like a retard( they may be very intelligent,but why?).Unfortunate for you that you have to deal with the negative image that gets put out by the majority of your own people that is what you are fighting...not the white man.I know there are white people just as bad,but not near as many(sorry if I offend but its true).I am sorry you feel that you are being short changed by society as it is obvious you are an intelligent person based on your argument.Fortunately for me I have never been affected by AA because I work in a job that requires the skill necessary and training that I cannot be denied as there is a need for it based on safety,any other person of any race has the same expected of them and nothing less.I guess that is why I seem unsympathetic.I do not hate or dislike any man beause of his skin,but his actions are another thing entirely.Good luck to all I'm done with this conversation...its doing exactly what I said it would do....Divide people.

KillerB you have a good point on the good ole boy network.A different animal and discussion for sure(not the same thing).That is something that has affected my career for the worse because I did not belong to the inside clique.Thats because I would rather kick butt than kiss it.The GOBN works against everybody but those in it, even whites.

 

[FlyinGN]

It happens to everyone. Its sad that this happens to anyone.. black OR white OR anything in between. This is why I go thru life treating *EVERYONE* the same. No matter what their skin color is. When I hire for work, I choose the *best* canidate. No matter what his background is. Thats why I have a good mix of all races at work Theres good and bad in everyone and the cream will rise to the top

now chill everyone and lets talk TR's!!

 

[Red Regal T]

Originally posted by killerb
isnt it ironic that you a white person is complaining about lost jobs and misfortune.so whats your point red regal t?your complaining about the same thing you are trying to erradicate. i could care less about affirmative action,i just want to express the use of the good ol boy network to do the same thing you complain about.it happens alot and you know it.affirmative action did help alot of people get the foot in the door they needed,because without it alot of people would not get a chance to even see the door including WHITE women.they are one of the biggest recipients of affirmative action.this fact seems to be remitted in this discussion.so turn over in bed tonight and give affirmative action a big kiss good night,it helped you pay for that nice gn you drive now.

I thought it was pretty clear what I was saying. Sorry you didn't get it.

 

[killerb]

i think we all had a good points in this mini debate,and i will try to be open to all.i dont think i have been i have been short changed by anyone,i just wanted to tell my side.i would never take a job unless i was qualified to do it,i call it pride.i just thought the fact that white women recieving benefits from affirmative action was never addressed and felt it nessesary to enlighten.

 

[sixgun86gn]

I know I said I was done with it,but you have brought a great point to the conversation KillerB.You are right nobody even thought about women at all.Glad you put it out there.

 

[artrenee10]

Excellent Debate Guys

DiCarlo your sarcasm is,........ well,..... very becoming, insensitive but becoming nonetheless. Thank you for your seemingly pointless argument.

Its interesting to see topics like these crop up every once in a while.......at least I know where many of us stand now......off politics and back to cars
Excellent logic btw KillerB......very well said.
Happy New Years Everyone
Steve Chambers

 

[Red Regal T]

Insensitive? OK. Though I don't see why I should have to be sensitive. I don't even spend a minute of my time thinking about this subject. I have to figure out how to get by......not worry about who's looking for freebies. Pointless? No, just direct.

Without affirmative action, there is no question why anyone has the position they occupy. It's not really true that only minorities have problems getting by. White Americans equally have problems getting by. We white Americans can't use the skin color excuse that I hear incessantly on the media.......OH, POOR US. We don't even think about it, actually, even though it keeps getting shoved in our face. If you are a member of a minority group and you don't abide by or use that excuse, HOW REFRESHING. I hear that sometimes but not that much. Spread it around to the people of color that you know. Maybe it will be come the popular opinion.

 

[trophystock]

As long as you are willing to take an honest look at what the other race has to go thru then surely you will see that they have it rough. If you are Black then you have to admit that they many times that a White person is denied an opprotunity just because AA has mandated that the Black person must be favored. If you are White then you have to admit that racism still exist in this country. It is a lose/lose situation and it sucks on both sides of the fence.

 

[killerb]

dicarlo,we should spead it around.but lets spread it around to everybody,including the white women that benifit from this sysyem as well.it was set up to include those who were excluded in the workplace,which were white women and people of color.not to long ago there were not many white women in positions of power in the workplace and now that has changed.you seem to have blinders on when it comes to this fact.your wife may have benefited from it which makes you a indirect beneficiary of it also.if not your wife,your sister or someone you are close to.only one side of this is ever told and the finger is usually pointed at people of color.many other groups benefit,just dig below the surface.

 

[UNGN]

If something is wrong, more people benefiting from it doesn't make it right.

Affirmative Action is one step away from Government Sponsored Racism. It Says Blacks (and Women) aren't smart enough to make it without the governments help.

The three black women engineers I work with every day would take issue with this. People who have seen Afirmative Action "in Action" give me work instead of giving it to my three co-workers because they "assume" they have their jobs because of AA and are mearly tokens to satisfy a quota.

This isn't the result of racism, as both Blacks and whites make the same invalid assumptions.

When I assure them the three can handle any work that is given to them, they give me a look of "OK, if you say so".

Do you see how Affirmative Action really works? It creates a stigma worse than the original racial one. Because now even non-racists think people of color (and women) can't be trusted to do their job. The longer "AA" remains in place, the longer the stigma will remain.

 

[artrenee10]

AA

Insensitive? OK. Though I don't see why I should have to be sensitive. I don't even spend a minute of my time thinking about this subject. I have to figure out how to get by......not worry about who's looking for freebies. Pointless? No, just direct

My point exactly. "You don't even spend a minute of your time thinking about the subject." Which is what probably led to your response sir.

We don't even think about it, actually, even though it keeps getting shoved in our face. If you are a member of a minority group and you don't abide by or use that excuse, HOW REFRESHING. I hear that sometimes but not that much. Spread it around to the people of color that you know. Maybe it will be come the popular opinion.

Yes, Ill immediately get on my bullhorn and make a standing announcement to the "people of color" that I know and make sure that they understand this.

Once again, I wear a size thirteen......care to take a few steps?

UNGN thank you for your comment it was well received.

Thank You Once Again,
Steve Chambers

 

[bishir]

Once in college I was studying in the library for exams and overheard a group of black students talking behind me. On of the girls was worried she won't get in medical school if she gets an A- average. Another student told her she doesn't have to study so hard because she'll get in no matter what because she is BLACK!

That kind of attitude is upsetting, but fortunately I don't feel everyone shares it. It is very tempting though to not try as hard when you know you'll get a job, or admission anyways because of race. In fact, I went though the same thing when I was getting my degree in Education. Since most education students are female I was told constantly I'd have no problem finding a job by both my instructors and from principals. In fact, I might have gotten my job over a more qualified female. Is that fair? I don't think so, but I don't think there should be a law for or against it.

Personally, I have no problem with AA for admission to college programs, because since I'm in education, I DO feel some minorities for intercity areas do not receive the same level of education. Not because of their race, but because of the type of students in their classrooms can alter their overall educational experience.

However, that should get thrown out the window after college or for admission to BA and PHD programs.

 

[fubar2.5]

OK put the following words into AA perspective for me"OPRAH WINFREY"
Billionaire, Black and a Woman.

 

[TurboJunky]

For those of you who've lost out on jobs due to your "majority" ethnicicity try doing what I do. On the job application simply put OTHER for your race. I've done this for years as I don't see anything that fits me. The other catagories are "African-American", "Hispanic-American", "Pacific-Islander", "Native-American", and "White". Since I didn't see anything labled plain old "American" I check OTHER.

They're good at describing a combination of hyphenated geographic locations as racial makeups then a COLOR for my group. If they'd include "Greek, German, English, Irish, Native American" I'd select that check box but since they don't I have to select OTHER.

I suggest everyone do the same thing. Consider your family racial makeup and if there isn't an appropriate checkbox select the default....OTHER.

Maybe they should change their applications to read:

BLACK
WHITE
RED
PINK
TAN
BROWN
YELLOW
ORANGE
GREEN
ALBINO

That may be more appropriate. For the record I'd be pink or red.

This is all beside the point. Color or ethnic makeup have NO bearing on potential quality of employment. It should all be removed and an employer should be forbidden to ask that by law just as they can't ask about your sexual orientation or if you're married.

My $.02

 

[Captain Mark]

A lot of us in the Texas - Oklahoma area have Native American blood down the line. i know a guy that had a Grandmother who was a native American, so now that's what he puts down on those questions. I may try that also. My full blood German great grandpa married a full blood Cherokee. What a mix!

 

[1badTTA]

Surprising nobody has mentioned Unions yet.

Between Affirmative Action, the Good Old Boy Network, and Union policies (former Union workers) I have been stuck working with some really worthless people at times.

In the Aviation Maintenance bussiness all you really need is experience to get a job and I have seen a number of people that were employed for many years that they shouldn't have been simply because it was nearly impossible to fire them for one reason or another. Then when I end up working near them I get stuck doing all the work because they don't know how. I have seen it with both men and women and "minorities" and whites. It really has nothing to do with race or sex, it is about people exploiting the rules and laws to get and keep jobs that they don't even do and aren't qualified for. BTW, most of these people come from the Land of Fruits and Nuts!!!! Thanks Bruce

Do I have something against Affirmative Action? Yes I do as well as any policy or law that allows someone to get or keep a job they aren't qualified or willing to do.

I think I will go apply for a scholarship from the United Negro College Fund and then scream racism when I get rejected, then sue Naturally Womens Fitness for not allowing me to get a membership due to sexism (I wonder if they have 2 locker rooms?)

OK, this white boy is now off the soap box.

 

[WE4]

It is very simple

Affirmative Action = Reverse Discrimination. PERIOD!

Have you ever seen a "United White boys" college fund.
But yet, we have the United Negro College Fund.
Try to apply.
Point made.
Done!

I have many "minority" friends that disbelieve it helps them also. In fact it is more like an insult directed at them they feel. No merits just race. That is BS as far as I am concerned on any level.


Bruce
WE4

 

[TurboJunky]

Re: It is very simple

Originally posted by WE4
Affirmative Action = Reverse Discrimination. PERIOD!
Bruce
WE4

Is there such a thing as "reverse discrimination"? Discrimination is discrimination, it's just that AA is state sponsored, legal discrimination. I see the proponent's argument in that it's set up to right the wrongs of the past but to what end? Do two wrongs make a right?....of course they don't.

I'd like to hear an AA proponent try to explain how it ISN'T another form of discrimination and since it obviously is why it's ok to punish an innocent person by keeping a better candidate down. Please explain how 2 wrongs make 1 right.... I challenge you.