alcohol questons; trunk mount, AF ratio, nozzle size, etc

[spooledstang]

I'm putting together an alcohol kit for my turbocharged 5liter 95 mustang. I have a few questions that I've had a hard time searching for:

1) Is heat a concern for the alcohol resevoir? The only feasible location for an alcohol resevoir in the engine bay of my mustang is the radiator overflow bottle, however it sits right in between the radiator and engine, and gets quite hot. This seems suboptimal. However I'm not sure if it matters.

2) The better option seems to be a trunk-mounted resevoir and pump. I will be using the shurflo pump, and I'm not sure if the extra length of the lines is a concern. I'm trying to keep this system simple, so I dont really want to use an accumulator, or additional pump etc. What works here? With the basic 'stevemon' system, do i need to make changes for trunk-mount kit?

3) On pump gas the car should make around 450rwhp using 8-10psi. Shall I use the M10 or M15?

4) I want to use methanol. Is this destructive to traditional rubber fuel lines? I'd prefer not to have to buy 20ft of the AN stuff.

5) What AF ratios should I tune for with alcohol? I have access to a wideband. That is, do I still tune in the traditional 11-12:1 range, or does this change?

Thanks for your helps guys, I'm looking forward to making good power on our 'premium' 91 octane!

 

[1badTTA]

1) Not as much as you would think, warm alky will still cool the intake air plenty.

2) The longer the line is the longer it will take for the Alky to reach the nozzle. If you mount the res and pump in the trunk, you will have to fill the line every time you nail it if it has been a while. Look into Razors progressive alky controller as it will allow you to turn it on alot sooner to prime your line.

3) It is all a matter of tuning and what works best on each different car. Probably start out with the M10 for better atomization and just turn up the pressure if needed.

4) Methanol is corrosive to nearly everything, could always run a stainless hard line most of the way and just the braided stainless teflon line for a few feet, cheapest route to be safe.

5) If you are using alot of Alky and replacing some fuel with it, you will need to run slightly richer. The best way to tune it seems to be EGT.

How's that from someone that just runs propane for BBQing mustangs

 

[Razor]

I'm currently making a progressive system for a 95 Mustang with a 76 T-trim, procharger IC..337 CI. I was looking at using the long radiator overflow and cutting it off at the bottom so a hose could be attached. Pump to be mounted under the front of the passenger fender. Pumps been order, overflow is in..havent had a chance to do the install/make the lines.

Tuning looks to be 11:1 for AFR using methanol..methanol makes more power..

Pressure line I definetely say braided..feed..your choice..I like braided for safety/reliability..

 

[spooledstang]

Originally posted by Razor
I'm currently making a progressive system for a 95 Mustang with a 76 T-trim, procharger IC..337 CI. I was looking at using the long radiator overflow and cutting it off at the bottom so a hose could be attached. Pump to be mounted under the front of the passenger fender. Pumps been order, overflow is in..havent had a chance to do the install/make the lines.

Tuning looks to be 11:1 for AFR using methanol..methanol makes more power..

Pressure line I definetely say braided..feed..your choice..I like braided for safety/reliability..

The problem with running a progressive controller on my setup is that given my lower boost level and turbo size, once the turbo starts spooling, it hits full boost very fast. There is not much range for 'progression'. I'm thinking of using a solenoid in the line to keep pressure in the line when I'm out of boost. This should work right?

I was just at the local speedshop, they had this blue 'elastomer' line made for the push-on fittings. They made a call and he said it could handle methanol no problem. $3/ft, I'm leaning that way. I comes in AN sizing, not sure if I should get 4 or 6.

Yes, the long radiator overflow was what I had in mind. That sucker gets very hot though, it has so much surface area and sits about an inch from the radiator. Seems like that would be too hot. Also, whats wrong with using the feed that comes out at the top? If you look closely it still comes from the bottom of the overflow. Are you concerned with it bieng gravity fed?

I dont have EGT gauge, but I do have wideband. I was under the impression that methanol burning at ~6:1 ratio will make a gasoline intended wideband read ~12:1. This is why I'm confused about the target level. Seems if you tune it for 11:1, the methanol might not be getting used as a fuel, just as a coolant?


My combo uses a cartech streetsleeper kit with a T64E. I think I'm just gonna start with the M10.

 

[1badTTA]

The advantages of a progressive controller is that you can have your turnon point very low to prime the line and also much better part throttle drivability since it will spray the correct amount of alky at any boost level.

Yes the solenoid will work just fine for keeping the line primed but it is rather expensive for a solenoid that will last with methanol flowing through it.

As for that blue elastomer line, it should be fine for corrosion, but will it handle the pressure? What is it rated at?

 

[spooledstang]

Originally posted by 1badTTA
The advantages of a progressive controller is that you can have your turnon point very low to prime the line and also much better part throttle drivability since it will spray the correct amount of alky at any boost level.

Yes the solenoid will work just fine for keeping the line primed but it is rather expensive for a solenoid that will last with methanol flowing through it.

As for that blue elastomer line, it should be fine for corrosion, but will it handle the pressure? What is it rated at?

I'm pretty sure it had a high pressure rating, but I'll double check. At this point I think I may use my windshield washer resevoir that way I can keep the system under the hood for simplicity.

So the $30 type solenoids arn't methanol friendly huh? Another reason I might keep this system up front.

 

[Razor]

Hows this, I have a progressive kit for a customer that turns on at 3 PSI and ramps up to boogie 6 PSI. At 3 PSI, on that car if the same was used as it was at 6 would screw up the AFR and bog it down. Flat AFR of 11 to 1 on methanol. Nice and safe. With a wideband.

Dont go cheap on safety items. It always amazes me how it can be done cheaper always gets in the way of doing things rite the first time. Get the teflon braided hose made and be done with it.. it works, is proven..easy..you play with another type of should work hose, then the hose comes apart, clogs your nozzle, no alky..you crunch the bearings from knocking it..it goes on and on and on and on......

I like the gravity fed when ever possible..it may or may not work with the outlet on the top..to be honest with you, who knows..its just a long distance on the mustang reservoir.

The use of a jr. dragster tank also has come up in place of the battery...also working on getting some empty batteries to use as containers ..

Methanol packs cooler air into the cylinders and makes more power..water can curb detonation, but meth does that and burns.. you have to find what your car likes. Also to really take advantage of injecting, try to spray as much as possible without it hampering performance.

If your container is less than a gallon, you'll be sorry

I would use an M15 nozzle..with some pressure behind it. But thats me and curb downthe fueling.

 

[spooledstang]

thanks, you guys have answered most my questions. just a couple more for razor.

Razor: So you don't think there's any problem using the overflow on my car? That sucker gets hot, but I don't know how hot is acceptable. Is there any chance of it bieng some kind of fire hazard? Alcohol doesnt lose much performance when its hot?

FWIW, last week I measured the volume of that overflow, it holds 3.5quarts, plus I believe you can use the factor level sender as a low alcohol light. It says "low coolant" in the dash, it'll just be a different kind of coolant!

The washer resevoir would keep cooler, and be even more stealthy and probably easier to setup, but it only holds 2.3quarts, and is not very visible to check the level. I would like to use this, but I'm not sure if the low volume will be a pain in the ass, and potentially run out on me.

 

[Razor]

My overflow sits 4 inches away from my downpipe... hows that for close.. no issues..

I was looking at that long sender as well on the cap..I dunno how it will hold up to methanol??? Thats a big ??? which I cant answer..yet

Only way is get a plastic tub and drop the sender in it for a couple weeks and see what happens to it.

Good luck..and plez dont scimp on anything electrical/safety..

The pushlock hose for the overflow may be a good idea as well..just on the pressure side I question anything rubber.. you dont want anything that can clog a nozzle. Filter is also important before the pump.