All GN's, or only selected High Emitters?

[#1HotRod]

Hay Joe: I was comparing my old/new smog check reports and notice that all the early ones have a little box with fill-in HEP (or such), then more recently box reads High Emitter. This is for all years, starting in 1999 when purchased & passed no problemo. Only had 2 failures in 15 years (one cured with new 02 sensor, other needed new EGR - not fun to find). Is/was there a problem with my particular car, I would assume beginning before I purchased auto, & thus it follows me to the grave (despite pass by far margin last many times)? Or, are all 1987 GN owners blessed with a special designation of High Emitter? Also, does it make a difference to the smog tech ("ooooh, we have a High Emitter here, I better be especially investigative"). Either way it seems discriminatory, seems a High Emitter would only be a particular vehicle that continually fails the standard set for that class of car. Are GN's in a smog class of their own, or are there other auto's that fit into their class & have similar smog standards?
Sorry if this has been previously addressed, havn't seen it...but probably still of interest to others.
Thanks....Ray

 

[jiho2]

Don't know if this answers your main question, but might be interesting and maybe even useful.

http://www.bar.ca.gov/Consumer/Q&As_Directed_Vehicles.html
http://www.bar.ca.gov/Consumer/Directed_Vehicles_Selection_Methodology.html

None of it applies to me because I'm in a "Basic" area and just have the 2-speed idle test.

 

[#1HotRod]

Thanks for links Jiho2. As your car not HEP designated that must mean not ALL GN's are HEP profiled . I'm in a designated high pollution area, so it would seem that ALL 87 GN's registered here would be HEP. LA invented smog, so wonder if all LA GN's are labeled HEP? The BAR literature explained some, but does not say if the HEP designation is permanent for those initially selected, even if a particular auto never failed emissions (once on a government list, one stays on the list). Don't want public to have toooo much info, they might be able to do something about it, lol. So, what if auto moved from one area to another, say to Redding, would it loose it's HEP designation? That may have an influence for some devoted hobbyist.
Appreciate your input. Wish Joe Cheung or someone of similar knowledge (not many of those!) would jump in.

 

[#1HotRod]

Thanks for links Jiho2. As your car not HEP designated that must mean not ALL GN's are HEP profiled . I'm in a designated high pollution area, so it would seem that ALL 87 GN's registered here would be HEP. LA invented smog, so wonder if all LA GN's are labeled HEP? The BAR literature explained some, but does not say if the HEP designation is permanent for those initially selected, even if a particular auto never failed emissions (once on a government list, one stays on the list). Don't want public to have toooo much info, they might be able to do something about it, lol. So, what if auto moved from one area to another, say to Redding, would it loose it's HEP designation? That may have an influence for some devoted hobbyist.
Appreciate your input. Wish Joe Cheung or someone of similar knowledge (not many of those!) would jump in.

 

[jiho2]

Wish Joe Cheung or someone of similar knowledge (not many of those!) would jump in.

Certainly not me! I still go through trauma from time to time, when I clear up some confusion or other and suddenly understand something I didn't know or just didn't get.

But plowing ahead regardless .... In "Enhanced" areas, it seems ALL pre-2000 cars fall under HEP, so there's really no way to distinguish. In other words, all GNs are included simply because all GNs are pre-2000, and all pre-2000 cars are automatically HEP. In "Basic" areas, there's no HEP at all.

That's a small bit of reading between the lines on my part, but I think that's what it adds up to.

Anyway, this doesn't really answer the question, why your car was HEP when you bought it in 1999 (interesting coincidence). It just tells us why it's HEP now.

 

[jiho2]

Anyway, you's a HEP cat!

 

[jiho2]

So, what if auto moved from one area to another, say to Redding, would it loose it's HEP designation? That may have an influence for some devoted hobbyist.

I think it would lose HEP, but I don't think that's enough reason to move. They don't test NOx here, but that's the only real difference and it isn't much. Same visual. The only reason to move would be to an area that has no smog check at all. There are a few of those.

 

[TurboTnZ06]

When I lived in Colorado, for the rolling dyno smog test, somehow a zip tie was on my throttle linkage preventing the car from going WOT, just enough to go 70mph... Passed with flying colors.

 

[#1HotRod]

Anyway, you's a HEP cat!

Ya, thanks a lot. I notice the BAR has ASM 5015 Standards, then stricter ASM 2525 Standards (I guess in case owners pass the 5015 ones?). Also notice that the standards creep up/stricter every few years, trying to catch those few morsels who've passed through last few sessions. It's funny (not) all pre-2000 are HEP in certain areas...even if they easily pass the fairly strict Standard. I outta compare the GN Standards to late model Standards (which should be much stricter as are born cleaner). If I were a bureaucrat I'd say that those oldsters are not near as "clean" as newer cars, but out of kindness Ca. sets their Standards in a manner that most of them can pass if operating efficiently. Humm...then why the hell have under-hood inspection if they pass clean tailpipe? Mine is very stock, but pain each time due to tech's not knowing this from that, arguing that I've added headers, best one is guy insisting that they don't come with turbos! Well, enjoyed rant wit you, did learn lot about HEP designation.

 

[#1HotRod]

TurboTN, sure like your ride, good running & good looking. Your post helps reveal the variances of each state, as no way a 10 sec (probably not 11 sec) older car would pass Ca. smog. So Fla. must have liberal tolerances. A glitch prevented Colorado from getting yours beyond 70 mph (they actually run cars to WOT? ), and in Ca. in off-idle test to only 51 - 58 mph. I'm not happy being discriminated just due to year of car, but that's one of the pleasures of being in Ca. Happy cruising to you in that cool car on Fla.'s long straight roads.

 

[85GPLEf41]

HMMM zip ties??

 

[jiho2]

Where is Joe, anyway? I've already offered what little I know, and more.

Count me as curious to know what you really wanted to know.

 

[gofstbuick]

All cars fall within a certain emissions classification. As the volume of our vehicle population diminishes, they end up on the 2% random or HEP. There are so few 1987 Buick Regals left, plus the fact that other similar Regals, N/A, turbos and v8, our cars are destined to be on the list. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

 

[jiho2]

Thanks for the reply. But that only explains why these cars shouldn't be under smog check at all, not why they should be HEP. Meanwhile, the first link I gave him says any pre-2000 car is automatically HEP.

His original question was, why his car was already HEP when he bought it in 1999 and has been ever since. Has the meaning of HEP, or its application, changed since 1999?

 

[gofstbuick]

You'll also have to remember that OBDI vehicles when they fail are some of the highest polluting vehicles. So even if your particular vehicle is quite clean, our cars by classification gets lumped in with HEP and if not, 2% random. Not my determination. Also the standards haven't gotten tighter so to speak, the standards were set higher than the clean air act to allow technicians to deal with a set parameter and then tighten to the federal clean air act standards. I know, really starting to sound like a govt employee with the double speak. I've been somewhat out of the loop with older car standards and it may be best to o to BAR's website and search HEP. I can do on Friday and give you a better update. I can say that I sold a 1999 Pontiac in favor of a 2000 and newer vehicle just for the OBDII scan test only. That test i so much easier, but it always appears that were punishing the older cars. Also I forgot that HEP is also set by geography. So if there are only a certain number of types of cars from the vehicle lookup table (VLT), then that vehicle population in that geographical area end up being HEP. There is a February 2000 Smog Check Advisory which explains this. I tried copying form the site, but is PDF and couldn't.

 

[gofstbuick]

You'll also have to remember that OBDI vehicles when they fail are some of the highest polluting vehicles. So even if your particular vehicle is quite clean, our cars by classification gets lumped in with HEP and if not, 2% random. Not my determination. Also the standards haven't gotten tighter so to speak, the standards were set higher than the clean air act to allow technicians to deal with a set parameter and then tighten to the federal clean air act standards. I know, really starting to sound like a govt employee with the double speak. I've been somewhat out of the loop with older car standards and it may be best to o to BAR's website and search HEP. I can do on Friday and give you a better update. I can say that I sold a 1999 Pontiac in favor of a 2000 and newer vehicle just for the OBDII scan test only. That test i so much easier, but it always appears that were punishing the older cars. Also I forgot that HEP is also set by geography. So if there are only a certain number of types of cars from the vehicle lookup table (VLT), then that vehicle population in that geographical area end up being HEP. There is a February 2000 Smog Check Advisory which explains this. I tried copying form the site, but is PDF and couldn't.

 

[gofstbuick]

Gotta get some rest to drive niece to Bay Area tomorrow for clinical trials. So we'll talk more tomorrow evening.

 

[#1HotRod]

What I've gleaned is that many types of pre-2000 performance cars are designated HEP due to low volumn and/or where they are registered (due to air standards in that area). Perhaps all GN's (at least '87's) are HEP designated, and that my GN (& any others in similar zones) is forever HEP due to being a GN and in my zone. If someone in another area of CA (say LA, or Weed) were to have a GN "not" HEP designated then we'd know that not ALL GN's were HEP (but it seems that they are, thus all must have biannual STAR smog tested).
A good part of owner frustration is the power of, but unfamiliarity of the techs. Some time ago a tech argued with me that GN's didn't come with a turbo, luckily the shop owner conceded otherwise. Then last month a tech felt the GN didn't come with headers and didn't like me disputing otherwise, then he insisted that a solenoid was missing from that boost vacuum control unit that sits on passenger side valve cover (I think he felt one somehow attaches to that port left open for breathing). He got upset when I asked him to look it up if he was not knowledgeable, so we agreed I should leave/take it elsewhere. Anyway, enough of that.

A sincere thank you Joe for your attention and input, and wishing the best for your niece.

 

[jiho2]

No. As Joe himself said, he's been "out of the loop" and is unfamiliar with current rules.

HEP only exists in "Enhanced" areas (ASM mode, aka "dyno" test) like LA and Fresno. In "Enhanced" areas ALL PRE-2000 CARS are automatically designated HEP, without exception. But this ONLY means that any pre-2000 car always gets a "dyno" tailpipe test, while 2000-up cars normally don't. The "Star" station stuff is just hand waving and deck chair rearrangement.

HEP does not exist in "Basic" areas (2-speed idle test) like Redding. No "HEP box" or whatever, ever appears on the "Basic" area test report. There is NO ISSUE of whether a car is or isn't HEP in a "Basic" area. But "Basic" area tests are based on the car's year, so it works out the same anyway -- all old cars get a tailpipe test.

The visual inspection is certainly a nuisance, and not getting any better. But the visual inspection routine is the same no matter what kind of smog check you have, wherever you have it, for as long as you have any smog check at all. Only in "Change of Ownership" areas like Weed do you not have smog check at all.

 

[#1HotRod]

What I've gleaned is that many types of pre-2000 performance cars are designated HEP due to low volumn and/or where they are registered (due to air standards in that area). Perhaps all GN's (at least '87's) are HEP designated, and that my GN (& any others in similar zones) is forever HEP due to being a GN and in my zone. If someone in another area of CA (say LA, or Weed) were to have a GN "not" HEP designated then we'd know that not ALL GN's were HEP (but it seems that they are, thus all must have biannual STAR smog tested).
A good part of owner frustration is the power of, but unfamiliarity of the techs. Some time ago a tech argued with me that GN's didn't come with a turbo, luckily the shop owner conceded otherwise. Then last month a tech felt the GN didn't come with headers and didn't like me disputing otherwise, then he insisted that a solenoid was missing from that boost vacuum control unit that sits on passenger side valve cover (I think he felt one somehow attaches to that port left open for breathing). He got upset when I asked him to look it up if he was not knowledgeable, so we agreed I should leave/take it elsewhere. Anyway, enough of that.

A sincere thank you Joe for your attention and input, and wishing the best for your niece.