all in favor of a breakout rule at Noble.

[sixgun86gn]

The race results are posted on the OKBuick website and there were 10 Fords, not 40, that ran over 1 second faster than their qualifying time and they won all 10 of these races. Buicks had 8 participants who did the same but only 5 won their races. Redlights on Buick side were down to 4, 2 lost because of breakage and 1 no show.

Look forward to seeing everyone next year and bring a friend or 2 with a fast Buick.

Phil Engle

OK keep making excuses for them.

Next year I will be there and test and tune all day for quals.... then no show in elims.

If we are just going to give it away,why risk hurting my car.

 

[sixgun86gn]

I have attended Noble for the last 10 years with the exception of this year. With the way Halloween fell and earlier high gas prices, I elected to stay home with the kids and I suspect Im not the only one. One of the reasons I keep coming back is because its a NO excuses heads up race! If we lose folks, its because we did not field the race with enough cars. I think it was 2003 that we won the race something like 57-33. Most of our heavy hitters lost but again our 10,11,12 and 13 second cars won most of their races. I remember one year in particular that we out numbered the fords so bad in terms of car count that there were like 16 Buicks that didnt get to race. The cutoff was 12.70!!!

I would rather lose year after year heads up than have an breakout rule or letting chevys come dominate the race which by the way would exclude 85% of all our Buicks from getting to race. Besides this is the 2nd biggest Buick event in the country secong only to BG nationals. I suggest we all throw in some money and try to sponser a bunch of TSO and TSM guys to come out early and help us dominate. Also there is a large 3800 fwd community that needs to be reached out to as well as the LS1 pontiac crowd. Its gonna take this boards effort to recruit more BOP racers to win this race. Like MR. Stage 1 said, we gotta start early. Dick cant be expected to do it all. Special thanks to Dick Walker for putting this super cool event on year after year.

Who said it wouldn't be heads up?

All thats being said is there should be a limit on how much a car should pick up in elims to keep it sportsmanlike.

You can still sandbag,just not as much.

WTF is so hard to understand?!

 

[Quik Six]

I'm not defending them. I just called "Bull****" on your statement that 40 of them sandbagged by over 1 second.

Running "fast with class" incudes sandbagging as long as it's not by too much?

I guess it would suck to sandbag and get your rear handed to you by a bigger sandbagger and I'd be mad too.

The race will go on next year and I would bet that the rules and the opponents will remain the same.

Again I hope to see you there and see your car run the 9 second times it appears to be capable of doing.

Phil Engle

 

[sixgun86gn]

I'm not defending them. I just called "Bull****" on your statement that 40 of them sandbagged by over 1 second.

Running "fast with class" incudes sandbagging as long as it's not by too much?

I guess it would suck to sandbag and get your rear handed to you by a bigger sandbagger and I'd be mad too.

The race will go on next year and I would bet that the rules and the opponents will remain the same.

Again I hope to see you there and see your car run the 9 second times it appears to be capable of doing.

Phil Engle

I didn't sandbag ass hat.

The statement was not a statistical one. Too bad you obviously cannot understand what was said.

The excuse about bumping 40 slower cars down the line was what i was referring to and it is not true,they just sandbagged less.

Go buy a POS mustang if you want the ford side to win. Car count doesn't mean s**t.

Want to know why car count is lower,well you and others like you keep letting it go.

I know of several buicks not coming back because we puss out on calling the ford camp what they are...pathetic.

Matter of fact watch for me to no show in quals next year just to piss everybody off.

I pay to go race at this event and I have a right as a paying participant to expect some amount of sportsmanship for my money and my travels.

 

[Quik Six]

You've made up your mind about how the event should be run so I won't try to persuade you or any others that the solution to this problem is to have more Buicks than Fords.

Next fall, the rules for the 2009 Shootout will be published on the OKBuicks website and a break out rule will either be adopted or it won't. If it's not adopted, you have the choice to participate or not.

Phil Engle

 

[mrstage1]

Arguing over breakout rules is NOT the answer.

I have been to the event the past 9 years and competed 7 times. I'm 5 and 2 counting this years retarded issue with my car, otherwise I had their SANDBAGGER covered. I rarely track race my car these days although I have through the years probably made 2000 passes in various cars. I will straight up admit to running late at night for "pride" on a deserted road somewhere.

What I see killing us right now, and it pains me to admit it, is two problems:

1 The Ford guys are better racers. Yep you heard it. On average they are younger and I'd wager, spend more time at the track with their cars or running them for money on the streets. Something alot of the more "mature" in the Buick community do not do. By the time they get to Noble they are very familiar with what their car needs to run well and have the seat time to drive it to it's potential. That, and what comes with being a regular racer of their cars is that killer attitude of "Want to win." These guys have something to prove. It may be a "fun" race when tooling around in the pits but I KNOW groups of Ford guys get together and talk about how they are gonna whip our asses... and they are serious about it.

2 Team spirit. this kinda fall salong the lines of "want to win" but different. I notice a sense of fun and comraderie among the Buick guys. I love this about our community, but I also see it as our downfall. More and more I've noticed that alot of the people that come to this event take almost a recreational attitude about it. It's more about hanging with buddies than it is smacking around some Fords. This is a failing. First and foremost guys, this is a race. I think if more guys got serious about the race part of it, THEN had fun with buddies, we'd do alot better. The Ford guys are winning right now because they CARE MORE TO WIN than we do. If we made this about beating the Stangs for our pride I guarantee you we'd get a stronger field involved. I think alot of the fast guys see how casual most are about this race and figure it's no big deal, why bother towing out to run.

Until we decide we want to beat those Fords and campaign for a team that can do it, we WILL lose since there are 100 fast Fords to every Buick out there. I always have a good time when I go, win or lose.....but I hate losing and even with minimal voltage to my system, I drilled the spray in second gear to try and run down a 9.50 car, even if it meant replacing the pistons in the motor. Lets try and get fired up for next year early, and roll down there and take them out. I know I will be there again, faster and stronger since I have Buick pride and won't make excuses or rules to help me feel better for why we lost.

 

[sixgun86gn]

You've made up your mind about how the event should be run so I won't try to persuade you or any others that the solution to this problem is to have more Buicks than Fords.

Next fall, the rules for the 2009 Shootout will be published on the OKBuicks website and a break out rule will either be adopted or it won't. If it's not adopted, you have the choice to participate or not.

Phil Engle

Fine by me and while your at it change the name of your club to OK LSX club,and call it the LSX vs. Ford race. Thats what it's going to end up being.

 

[Jerryl]

You've made up your mind about how the event should be run so I won't try to persuade you or any others that the solution to this problem is to have more Buicks than Fords.

Next fall, the rules for the 2009 Shootout will be published on the OKBuicks website and a break out rule will either be adopted or it won't. If it's not adopted, you have the choice to participate or not.

Phil Engle

Phil,
Fair enough (No pun intended)
Bottom Line is; "Your event, your rules."

To the original poster (my friend JD ) : There you have it.
No need to convince otherwise either.

 

[JCotton]

LSTTYPE: Thanks for your comments about the event in Noble. It is unfortunate that you were not able to attend this years event.

Your point about using this board as place to recruit racers from the Buick community and the Pontiac community is right on target. I compile and post a list of those individuals that have committed to race at Noble and I asked for names on 3 different message boards. This board had 2 threads about Noble with 2348 views and 136 replies. The other 2 boards had combined total of 246 views and no replies.

Noble is no big secret and you can start recruiting with our vendors. I hit up Jason Cramer about coming every time I order a part and Mike Licht needs to know that Jack Cotton was in Noble this year. Lawrence Connelly was pretty much a regular attendee when he still had his business. We start getting 150 cars and there will be an increase in interest by vendors and the faster cars will come.

I will start the list earlier next year.

Hope to see you and a couple of your friends at Noble next year.

Phil Engle

Right on Phil,

I had a most excellent time.. again. This is my second time out there in 3 years. The first time was incredible, I was absolutely overcome with excitement to come back ... bring Pumpkin. Well, it hasn't happened yet, although I thoughtI had a good chance of getting it out there this year. I could only afford to fly out and do some tuning for customers. Just not enough time to drive out with the trailer. I must say, I'm not really interested in attending from the standpoint of vending, too expensive to get out there. But I am still more interested than ever to figure out how I can get my car out there. I want some of those mustangs... I know 2 of my customers I worked with were running mid 12's but were not launching hard, when it came time to race, they both smoked the mustangs off the line and never looked back. I saw the red mustang James raced, get off the line, hit the juice and then pull off to the side, something didn't work.... :smile: Ole ray, just came out hard and hung on at the end of the track... I thought my coaxing to get up on boost and hit the lite was the reason they won... the reality is them ole boys, didn't need me to tell them how to race... like James said afterwards, "this isn't the first time I raced a mustang"!!!

To sum it up for me, I want to see us kick some butt, whether I bring my car out there or fly out to help in the pits... I plan onbeing there again next year. Dick, the Gordons and the rest that put this on are just the best... we should all be grateful we have them. There are too few events and too few participating Buicks because we can't have it our way. If we just show up, have that desire to win and show up ready, we can win!!

 

[S2V6RACER]

There are too few events and too few participating Buicks because we can't have it our way. If we just show up, have that desire to win and show up ready, we can win!!

Very well said. I agree 100%. :biggrin:

 

[Otto J]

Maybe they should get you to come out Ted wit DA grey car and show em how its really done.

Subscribed

 

[LSTTYPE]

Hate to see the event lose more participants. As inconsistent as my car is, a breakout rule would end up hurting me and probably allot of turbo buicks. I understand people's frustration with sandbagging, but I would rather lose every year than have to handicap the fords in some way to get the win. Just ask our top 10 qualifyers every year how they feel. They are literally sacrifriced and they know it. However they keep coming back for a team win and community only Buicks have. I would put money on our team every year if we simply outnumber their field.

 

[mrstage1]

Luke, I ain't no sacrifice. If I can get some more customers to the shop this year and generate some funds for the NoPollo's new engine combo to be ready, then the Fords better just run for cover.

Twin 88's and a 570 cube T/A block just keeps me up at night imagining the expressions of the Ford guys when 2000 plus hp of tube chassis'd Buick says "Hi".

 

[S2V6RACER]

Maybe they should get you to come out Ted wit DA grey car and show em how its really done.

Subscribed

Hmmm, I don't think I'm packing enough to hang with DA Mustangs, at least as fast as they are these days.

 

[Otto J]

Hmmm, I don't think I'm packing enough to hang with DA Mustangs, at least as fast as they are these days.

The post above makes it appear dat a 9sec Turbo regal can hang.
So you would be left holding the trophy!

 

[Quik Six]

Phil,
Fair enough (No pun intended)
Bottom Line is; "Your event, your rules."

To the original poster (my friend JD ) : There you have it.
No need to convince otherwise either.

Jerryl: I have nothing to do with the rules; that is determined by the race committee of OKBuicks.

My comments were meant for sixgun86gn.

Phil Engle

 

[Quik Six]

Arguing over breakout rules is NOT the answer.

I have been to the event the past 9 years and competed 7 times. I'm 5 and 2 counting this years retarded issue with my car, otherwise I had their SANDBAGGER covered. I rarely track race my car these days although I have through the years probably made 2000 passes in various cars. I will straight up admit to running late at night for "pride" on a deserted road somewhere.

What I see killing us right now, and it pains me to admit it, is two problems:

1 The Ford guys are better racers. Yep you heard it. On average they are younger and I'd wager, spend more time at the track with their cars or running them for money on the streets. Something alot of the more "mature" in the Buick community do not do. By the time they get to Noble they are very familiar with what their car needs to run well and have the seat time to drive it to it's potential. That, and what comes with being a regular racer of their cars is that killer attitude of "Want to win." These guys have something to prove. It may be a "fun" race when tooling around in the pits but I KNOW groups of Ford guys get together and talk about how they are gonna whip our asses... and they are serious about it.

2 Team spirit. this kinda fall salong the lines of "want to win" but different. I notice a sense of fun and comraderie among the Buick guys. I love this about our community, but I also see it as our downfall. More and more I've noticed that alot of the people that come to this event take almost a recreational attitude about it. It's more about hanging with buddies than it is smacking around some Fords. This is a failing. First and foremost guys, this is a race. I think if more guys got serious about the race part of it, THEN had fun with buddies, we'd do alot better. The Ford guys are winning right now because they CARE MORE TO WIN than we do. If we made this about beating the Stangs for our pride I guarantee you we'd get a stronger field involved. I think alot of the fast guys see how casual most are about this race and figure it's no big deal, why bother towing out to run.

Until we decide we want to beat those Fords and campaign for a team that can do it, we WILL lose since there are 100 fast Fords to every Buick out there. I always have a good time when I go, win or lose.....but I hate losing and even with minimal voltage to my system, I drilled the spray in second gear to try and run down a 9.50 car, even if it meant replacing the pistons in the motor. Lets try and get fired up for next year early, and roll down there and take them out. I know I will be there again, faster and stronger since I have Buick pride and won't make excuses or rules to help me feel better for why we lost.

Ouch! Sometimes the truth hurts.

You have brought up some very good points.

Phil Engle

 

[Jerryl]

How many buicks that have the type of CI's and the boost to hang with the Fords?
Not too many.
It would be very hard to have buicks win the event going up against CI+Boost+NOS
In the "old days", sure, when running against NA Fords with NOS ...... Now a lot support CI's+turbos/SC's+NOS.
I just don't see it happening, unless you can put number down like Otto, Ted A., or JCotton, and the few others, who probably will not show.

Guess what I am saying is:
Even if "the number of Buicks" attend, you think the Buicks can win?
The sheer quality to pick from from the quantity, from the Ford camp will drown the Buicks.
Feel free to correct me if I donlt know what I am talking about. :tongue:

 

[dwalker]

Team Racing

Just catching up on some of the concerns of some of those posting. Being that I do have something to do with the rules, here are some of them: 1. Our Team, Team Buick, will continue to be made up of Buick and invited quests, Pontiac, Oldsmobile, Cadillac, and GMC trucks. These platforms are allowed any GM design engine, equipt with any power adders. 2. Team Ford will include all Ford produced and marketed cars and trucks with Ford power and any power adders. 3. All entries are Team Members. Team Objective: 1. Win for your Team! 2. Make your qualifying time your best run possible. 3. Back up your qualifying run in the final. 2 and 3 make 1 more likely. Those of you who think this is a 'sportsmans' race, or a race to come and post a personal win at the expense of the Team, miss the objective, which is to win the most races. It is a pitched war against a rival. As a Team Member, we expect you to run your own race to the best of your ability reqardless of what the opposing Team is doing, including sandbagging. Those of you who join our Team from out of State, need only tell the attendant when checking in for entry, where you are from and your entry will be paid by OKBuicks. This includes Texas. Yes, the score is Team Buick 5, and Team Ford 9. That means we did win 5 times by fielding an overall quicker Team. We can do it again with unity and Team players getting their cars ready. Dick Walker, OKBuicks

 

[mrstage1]

Thanks for the comments DW. I agree wholeheartedly.

Jerryl, there is two ways of looking at this deal. One is to try and run with them from top to bottom. Tough for us unless most of the Buick world's big players decide enough is enough and show up so that our top 20 is better than 10's.

Or........

We can get a 150 Buicks to show and run good. Everyone knows a light bolt on TR will run easy 12's if the driver and tuner aren't doing something wrong. If we had enough cars to lower our bump to say low, low 13's--high 12's and have our ET's continue lower in a natural progression, I'd venture to say our "slow" bottom of the field would simply overwhelm there "slow" side enough that they simply won't be able to make up the victory count when the ET's drop to where some of the strong Fords play and there are less Buicks running in that range.

I have been there when this exact scenario played out. We build a huge lead in the beginning and their fast guys can't get enough wins to catch up.

We need car count to make it happen, as well as drivers and cars that come prepared.

PS: DW, I will have that comp license freshened up and be ready to go without having to pull the reigns in during qualifying next year.