AMS1000 operation for dummies

[Alky V6]

how about simplifying it and set the proper ramp to max boost in 1 stage?
6 stages of boost control?
Why do you lower your target after it hit 24.5?
I think you are way overthinking boost control,but everyone has their own way

If my combination at my present level of engine and chassis tune allowed for such a simple curve, I would certainly be using it.
The controller gives the user the opportunity to set up some interestingly complex curves. That's what makes this controller so popular. It can be adjusted to meet any type of boost rise demand.
The boost lowers after 24.5 to level out the boost rise for the 1-2 shift. The nitrous hit sets up a very steep map rise rate that if left to continue without trying to level it out would give me way too much boost for the 1-2 shift. A nice problem to have with a 91mm turbo.
I do want the boost to rise as quickly and as high as possible before I have to make the 1-2 shift, so the boost does end up spiking at a point just before the 1-2 shift. So far, this strategy has worked very well for me.

Controlling the boost for the 1-2 shift is much more involved with this 91mm than it would be with a smaller turbo that can essentially be leaving the line at a controlled level already, with little emphasis on attempting to get the power level as high as possible before the need to make the 1-2 shift.

I think that is where you may be confused. You're trying to compare the quick rise rate and easier boost controlling of a smaller turbo to this 91mm. Completely different world, Otto.
The boost setting is overstepped during the boost climb in first to make sure that there isn't any wastegate valve cracking that may slow the rate of boost climb. This is a very important point. If this isn't clear, let me know. This is just starting to touch on some of the finer, less obvious reasons for my particular settings. This is what I consider stuff from my top secret war chest, so you better be soaking it up.

 

[Alky V6]

Is there an issue with removing the wastegate springs and relying 100% on the C02 for control with the AMS1000?

That will force you to always have the CO2 pressure on the valve, which would use up a lot of CO2, and it would force you to use higher CO2 pressures to make up for the lack of a spring to help out. That also will end up consuming CO2 quicker.

edit: Ooops. Answered a post that I thought was a new one, but had already been addressed earlier.

 

[Alky V6]

If anyone has trouble understanding anything I write about, please speak up and I'll figure out another way of putting it. Or, we'll just get the hammer out and beat it in.

 

[HighPSI]

I wasn't concerned about it being mathematically correct. I was showing you how the controller works. I asked you numerous times if you were hitting your target values and you had no clue, I then explained that you could put a value of 0 in the 4th stage and 100 in the 5th and it wouldn't make any diference and again you said you were unsure. This wasn't about being "mathematically correct" this was about explaining how the controller worked to you, If you want to act like you knew what you were doing before, I can clearly go back to the other thread and show otherwise. I was going to leave this alone, but you elected to bring me into things. Probably best to leave me out and I'll stay away.

 

[Alky V6]

I wasn't concerned about it being mathematically correct. I was showing you how the controller works. I asked you numerous times if you were hitting your target values and you had no clue, I then explained that you could put a value of 0 in the 4th stage and 100 in the 5th and it wouldn't make any diference and again you said you were unsure. This wasn't about being "mathematically correct" this was about explaining how the controller worked to you, If you want to act like you knew what you were doing before, I can clearly go back to the other thread and show otherwise. I was going to leave this alone, but you elected to bring me into things. Probably best to leave me out and I'll stay away.

Cal! You're more than welcome to participate. I wish you would. I've made this perfectly clear in this thread. Why do you hide on a subject that you know so much about?! I admit I have not worked with this unit as long, and as much as you have, so without the unit right in front of me sometimes so I can plug numbers in to see how they work out, well, all I can say is, I'm still learning. If you want to fault me for that, then again, you are more than welcome to give me a public flogging for still learning. Don't worry, Cal. I'm used to being criticized for still learning.
I will say this. The discussion in the other thread did make me look at the settings again, which allowed me to further understand the unit. So, your participation, no matter what the manner of participation, is helpful to others in understanding the unit better. So stop hiding and participate!
At least I have the sack to lay it out there and try to explain my experiences with this unit with people, even with the criticism that it may draw from some that may know this unit better, but for whatever reason don't want to get involved in a constructive manner to help and explain the unit to myself and others.

Bottom line, Cal, your participation, even if it is just to criticise me, is helpful, so don't hide. Bring it on. What other criticisms do you have of me and my understanding of this unit? I am eagerly waiting for your responce.

 

[Alky V6]

A good lesson in life

Sometimes, when all you can get from a person is cold hearted criticism, you need to learn to use that criticism in a constructive manner.

 

[Alky V6]

Cal has made me think about something, again. Thanks for your input, Cal!

In this whole thread, we have not touched on the math involved with the settings. I personally have learned a sort of trial and error way of playing with the settings that has seemed to be enough to come up with the sort of control pressure curve that I am looking to create. Cal has taught himself a more mathematical way, and more exacting way of coming up with, or testing his, or someone else's settings.

My question is, is this something we need to discuss in this thread? Are there others that would like to be able to lay out a proposed control curve on paper and understand the mathematics of setting up such a control curve on this unit?
We could start out with a very simple control curve such as the type that Otto seems to be used to, one stage, and work up to more complicated curves if the interest is there. This would be a good exercise for myself, also. If the interest is not there, and people are getting by just fine without having to understand the math completely in their head, then I won't bother.

If anyone is concerned about open harsh criticism from some, just PM me about it.

 

[Bent6]

Have you seen what the AMS 2000 can do yet? My understanding is no more ramps, timers, mathematics, etc. needed - just plot your curve on the software, upload it and go. The jury's still out since it was just officially unveiled at PRI this week. Looks to be way more than most will ever need especially since very few people even come close to uning the 1000 to it's full potential. I'm sure there will be a boat load of AMS 1000s for sale soon!

 

[Hartline Perf.]

Cal has been away at the PRI tradeshow the last two days, but here's a picture from yesterday.

 

[Alky V6]

Have you seen what the AMS 2000 can do yet? My understanding is no more ramps, timers, mathematics, etc. needed - just plot your curve on the software, upload it and go. The jury's still out since it was just officially unveiled at PRI this week. Looks to be way more than most will ever need especially since very few people even come close to uning the 1000 to it's full potential. I'm sure there will be a boat load of AMS 1000s for sale soon!

I agree with that.

 

[chevyII]

Heard they are going to be over $1500 and close to $1800. I can do alot of math for that price.

 

[HighPSI]

I have been away the last two days. Let me start by apologizing to Donnie for my hasty post a couple days ago. I was on my way out the door to the PRI and really shouldn't have posted at all.

I have played around quite a bit with the AMS 2000 software. It is real nice and offers a lot of possibilties. It currently does not have a display, but they will be selling one later. The cost is supposed to be $1850. It allows you to have 50 diferent boost points with a resolution of .05 second. It has a lot of trim tables to the boost settings. You can trim the boost vs Air Fuel Ratio, Air Temp, driveshaft speed, TPS, and a couple others I am forgetting. It also has ramps for the scramble inputs. It also has custom scaling for your auxillary channel input. This controller will control the CO2 to levels better then anyone would ever need.

Don, I would recommend you send your AMS1000 in for an upgrade. It allows you to store 4 different boost curves, and more importantly, displays your setting in a way that doesn't require any math to see what the curve does. In other words, when you put in a ramp, it does the math for you and lets you know if the target is attainable, etc... If your vendor sells a lot of units, he may be able to get this for free.

 

[Louie L.]

The features and control parameters inside AMS 2000 are incredible. It is not for every one, but it is certainly a impressive piece of equipment.

 

[Bent6]

I would recommend you send your AMS1000 in for an upgrade. It allows you to store 4 different boost curves, and more importantly, displays your setting in a way that doesn't require any math to see what the curve does. In other words, when you put in a ramp, it does the math for you and lets you know if the target is attainable, etc... If your vendor sells a lot of units, he may be able to get this for free.

??? There's an upgrade for the 1000 or are you recommending he go with the new 2000? Do you know when the display is gong to be out?

 

[Bent6]

Never mind - figured out you're talking about VER 3.0 for the AMS1000.

 

[Alky V6]

I have been away the last two days. Let me start by apologizing to Donnie for my hasty post a couple days ago. I was on my way out the door to the PRI and really shouldn't have posted at all.

I have played around quite a bit with the AMS 2000 software. It is real nice and offers a lot of possibilties. It currently does not have a display, but they will be selling one later. The cost is supposed to be $1850. It allows you to have 50 diferent boost points with a resolution of .05 second. It has a lot of trim tables to the boost settings. You can trim the boost vs Air Fuel Ratio, Air Temp, driveshaft speed, TPS, and a couple others I am forgetting. It also has ramps for the scramble inputs. It also has custom scaling for your auxillary channel input. This controller will control the CO2 to levels better then anyone would ever need.

Don, I would recommend you send your AMS1000 in for an upgrade. It allows you to store 4 different boost curves, and more importantly, displays your setting in a way that doesn't require any math to see what the curve does. In other words, when you put in a ramp, it does the math for you and lets you know if the target is attainable, etc... If your vendor sells a lot of units, he may be able to get this for free.

Thanks, Cal. Apology accepted.
I've known about the upgrade for the 1000. When I first learned of it, I debated in my head about whether to send it in or not. Maybe when the car is down for a much needed PMing of the motor.
The graph view does show you if the target is capable of being met or not, and if not, then it will show you what target can be obtained with the settings as they are. I've always understood that. In a sense, this version of 1000 software also does the math for you, but it is a pain going back and forth from the settings to the graph view. I have found this method to be faster for me than taking the time to learn to do the math out on paper, and it's just how I've learned to deal with the unit. Now that I've got the timing of the stages more of less strategically set, it's not really that difficult to adjust the control pressure curve to give me varying rates of climb throughout the run, if that is what the tune up and/or the track call for.

 

[Alky V6]

Heard they are going to be over $1500 and close to $1800. I can do alot of math for that price.

LOL That's kinda how I feel about it.

 

[Alky V6]

New curve. The math is cleaned up to make the break points more logical.
This curve will be used to test the fueling above 315 kPa MAP.

0.00, 1.48, .40, 1.47, .26, .75
0, 19, 3, 10, 4, 3
24.5, 23, 27.4, 30, 33, 37

Launch setting: 18.5 boost, 6.5 aux.

This is setup for an 1/8 mile run. I completely expect the tires to do a lot of dancing. The goal of this setting is to complete the fuel map above 315 kPa MAP, and see how much more fueling the engine wants. The fuel curve is already starting to bend at 300 kPa MAP. It appears the limit of these heads is coming up fast.

 

[Alky V6]

Some simple math that can be used with the AMS1000.

Pick a stage(a) and its ramp rate [ramp(a)] and multiply by the timer setting of the next stage(b) to come up with the maximum target psi that can be obtained by the timeout of the stage(b) timer.

Using my last settings as an example.

Ramp3 x Stage4 timer = psi obtained by the timeout of the Stage4 timer.
3 x 1.47 = 4.41
The difference of the Stage3 target psi and the Stage2 target psi is;
27.4 - 23 = 4.40 psi.

Let's say you want to have the target psi rise from stage3 to the next stage4 target psi by 2.6 psi in .26 seconds. What ramp rate would you need to set for stage4? Again, using my settings as an example;
2.6 (difference in target psi between stage4 and stage3) x .26 (stage5 timer) = 10 (to be input as ramp4).

Let's say you wonder how long it will take for a target psi gain to be met using a certain ramp rate. Again, using my settings as an example.
stage5 target psi 37 - stage4 target psi 33 = 4 target psi difference.
4 (stage 5 and stage 6 target psi difference) / 3 (ramp6) = 1.33 (the time by when the target psi difference of 4 will be obtained.

If you take all the stage timers of my latest controller settings and add them together, then add the 1.33 seconds from the last calculation, you end up with a total time span since the beginning of activation of 5.69 seconds. This should be around the time I will need to have the boost control curve completed by the end of an 1/8 mile pass.

Some notes to myself: In the timeline from launch, the 1-2 shift occurs at 1.68 sec @ 7400 rpm. From the end of the 1-2 shift point, 1.64 seconds later, the 2-3 shift occurs @ 7400 rpm. The 2-3 shift occurs after 3.35 seconds from the beginning of the timeline (launch).

 

[Alky V6]

Entered the car in some bracket racing over the weekend.
Ended up with this setting in a feable attempt to gain consistent traction with tires that are going away. Still managed 5.80s with the car.
0, 1.28, .4, 1.62, .26, .75
0, 19, 2, 10, 4, 3
19, 17, 22.2, 23, 23, 23