Annual pull the motor day today. Update 7/03/16

[earlbrown]

Can you say for sure that you have both dowels on the front of the block to locate the timing cover?

Even then I'd still be laying some of the blame on the balancer hub. I believe you can get repair sleeves but I'm not 100% certain on that one.

If not, I'd definitely sand the hell out of the hub. I've gotten over 100,000 miles out of a fel pro seal and it was still sealing when my timing chain let go

 

[BARRACUDA1968]

I have 2 dowel pins on the front of the motor. I just pulled the cover today.

Before I pulled the cover I used my crank tool to give me a reference as to where the balancer hub would be in relationship to the timing cover. I used a zip tie to slip between the cover and the crank tool (balancer snout) I felt it get just a tad tighter at the top of the cover. Eye balling it looks pretty darn centered. I'm a hair off which I may be able to fix with the modifying the timing cover pin holes. I haven't decided if I want to try that or not. I have Earls cover which is GM so when the seal goes out it's a bit of a job to fix. Mine started leaking after 1400 miles or so. If I don't get right with the Lord on this deal I'll probably sell Earl's cover and buy a TA cover so if and when the seal goes it's a lot easier to replace the seal. I know I sound defeated already but if you've been following my history with this car you'd understand.

Second test I did was to put some axle grease on the balancer and lay it on the table. I then slid the timing cover over the balancer and the seal left grease at the 8 o'clock position 3 times. I know this is scientific but the seal is firm enough to center itself on the balancer as long as I just guided it on.

Now I need to figure out why this happened? I can't imagine I'm that far out of center to eat a seal that quick. Earl may have something with the balancer snout. It got corroded the first time I lifted the head because the crank seal created a rust ring before I had a chance to get the motor apart. I scotch brited that up but maybe not good enough before I put the motor back together?

Anyway here are some pics. I'm going to have a friend of mine take a look at the balancer and seal. Maybe I'm missing something.

 

[robzombie]

You might get away with a repair sleeve for the balancer like this.

I have used them in the past and they work great.

It will restore the balancer surface/diameter if there are grooves or pitting that you have to sand down from seal cutting or rust giving the seal a clean perfectly round surface to ride on.

They are less than ten bucks and cheaper than buying a new balancer.

That and a new seal will solve the problem unless the cover or crank are out of round.

 

[BARRACUDA1968]

Here's an update of the diagnosis so far. I have a friend who's a machinist and he made me a tool to check the alignment of the timing cover in relation to the crank. That way I could rule out the seal issue do to mis-alignment. I'm .010 on the timing chain so I'm a hair short.

I put the cover on this morning and slid the tool over the crank and it went right in. I can't seat it against the timing cover unless I pull the keyway off but I don't need to go through all that work. It goes in at least .040 so I'm aligned within a measurement we don't even need to worry about.




I did discuss the balancer sleeve with Rich and once we installed the TA Balancer in the cover with a seal in it I've got that seal covered. That's not the issue either.

We did put the balancer in the lathe and clean up the snout with some light sand paper. Was that an issue??? Doubt it.

So basically I'm down to bad luck or a seal issue. My motor is tighter than a frogs a$$. I run an oil catch can and before this motor was put together I sucked out 4 to 6 cc's of oil after a 150 to 200 mile day of normal to a few boosted runs and my breathers were soaked. Now I may have a light film of oil in the can and basically dry breathers with no splash baffles. I just can't see crank case pressure being the issue but I'm definitely not the expert. I was pushing 23 psi before I pulled the motor but I didn't have any symptoms of CCP.

Just waiting for my gaskets to show up then I'll start putting it back together.

 

[robzombie]

Hope it all works out this time around.

Let us know how it goes.

Hopefully it will be an [annual drove the motor] thread from now on.

 

[BARRACUDA1968]

No kidding.

 

[Lil Truck]

Any update ?

 

[BARRACUDA1968]

I have everything I need to put the motor back together. I just need to take the time to do it. I have my DP and factory headers at the powder coaters. They called and said they were done today.

The main reason I'm not in a huge hurry is I'm waiting for my stage 3 trans from Lonnie. My current trans is holding but it won't be long at 23 psi. It's starting to flare between 2 and 3. That tranny is going in my 78 Bandit Trans am after a mild freshin up and the Stage 3 in the GN. Lonnie doesn't have a core charge so after some thought I decided to just add a new transmission for the same price or cheaper than having mine rebuilt since shipping is only one way. My Trans Am will get along just fine with the old trans and it's a basic bolt in mod with a gear swap.

I want to do everything at the same time so until the tranny gets here which should be any day now I'm kind of being lazy.

I plan to get in gear after the holiday weekend. Lonnie said 5 weeks and it's been 6 so I'll bother him next week with a call.

 

[robzombie]

Take your time and get it right. I know that if I hadn't gone over every step of putting my motor together I might have missed the cam lobe making contact with the lifter adjacent to it on the 6,5,and number 3 cylinders.

That would have been a disaster in the making. Just ordered a new cam because I didn't want to mill the lobes on the side to make clearance.

 

[BEATAV8]

Take your time and get it right. I know that if I hadn't gone over every step of putting my motor together I might have missed the cam lobe making contact with the lifter adjacent to it on the 6,5,and number 3 cylinders.

That would have been a disaster in the making. Just ordered a new cam because I didn't want to mill the lobes on the side to make clearance.

I've seen that before too. Aftermarket parts are often worse than iron ore that's still in the ground. That's how far away they are from factory engineered.

 

[robzombie]

I've seen that before too. Aftermarket parts are often worse than iron ore that's still in the ground. That's how far away they are from factory engineered.

Yea go figure, I find the problem and then find the thread showing that this has been a problem for awhile.

First time I've seen this in person and I've built a few motors in the past thirty years.
I was surprised to see such a problem like this from comp/cams though.

I guess the only thing that goes up nowadays is the price, not the quality.

 

[BARRACUDA1968]

Since I'm going to use head studs this go around I've been reading the sticky in the engine tech section.

I've already prepped the block by chasing the threads and cleaning the deck surface etc. It was mentioned to wire wheel the studs on the block threads side so the sealant adheres to them. No big deal I guess and it makes sense so I'll do that just for good measure.

My biggest question is what's the consensus for thread sealer? Ultra Black was mentioned along with Loctite 567. There are 2 links in that thread that no longer work concerning this so I guess I'll just ask here. What do I want to use for thread sealer?

I plan to final TQ the heads at 80 ft pounds and re-torque after 4 hours and then again after a couple heat cycles. I'm not crazy about re-torqueing with the motor in the car because you just can't get at the bolt/nuts evenly and get a nice pull but it seamed when I re-torqued twice on the last motor I found the center bolts needed it. So it will be done.

Any other advice is appreciated. I'm starting assembly next week.

 

[robzombie]

I use the 567 and never had a leak with it.

 

[BARRACUDA1968]

Ok sounds good.

 

[ZNix]

I too have used loctite 567 with no issue. However I have never wire wheeled the studs. I think the coating from the factory is meant to be used with sealer.

Sent from my LG-D850 using Tapatalk

 

[BARRACUDA1968]

I may just give ARP a call and make sure. I have no real experience either way but if it's not needed then I don't want to waste my time. Thanks for bringing that up.

 

[robzombie]

No need to wire wheel them. just clean the protective oil coating off if they are new.

I just clean them with brake clean and have never had an issue. The people using a wire wheel may also be the ones using RTV.

 

[BARRACUDA1968]

Will Do!

 

[BARRACUDA1968]

I have to order the Loctite 567. They offer a 50ML bottle. Is one bottle enough?

 

[robzombie]

I have to order the Loctite 567. They offer a 50ML bottle. Is one bottle enough?

Considering that I did my motor with a 6oz. tube I'll say that you will have plenty with 50 oz.

You could do five engines easily with that size.

I just bought a 50z. through summit and imagine it will go bad before I use it all. But I'd rather have to much and not need it then run out and have to order it and wait.