Any ideas on what will work for my setup?

[trixdout]

This topic must have been beat to S@#T already, but I got to take one last stab at it.

So my GN is an '87 with 101k miles and the car was babied. Finally after 25 years, my brother and I replaced the rms and installed the neoprene one. Also getting all of the major gaskets taken care of (oil pan, transmission pan, and valve covers). I have a few questions and need some advice because I have done a lot of reading, but also apparently not enough (since i'm posting this topic). So down to business.

Honestly do not know what my end goal of HP would be, but I know some of the parts that I want to use and have already bought. Going to driving this car sparingly and only on nice days, no 1/4 drags at all. Maybe on occasion a spirited drag against a friend. This will not be a track car or raced. So I need advice on what parts will work together and fit together (eg. downpipe to turbo).

On a side note, I am definitely thinking of getting the Hotchkis full suspension kit for the grand national that will lower the car overall 1" front and back. I am also running the gn1performance 45 degree valve covers with pcv valve delete and breathers on each vavlve covers, what do I do with the pcv valve?

I want to put the dual 3" exhaust on it, already bought the kenne bell exhaust headers (mounting them next saturday), also bought a used ls1 maf from another member on this site (kaj), most lkely also doing the K/N 3" cai. In some future time, I will be upgrading the stock intercooler to the PTE extended intercooler. Another part that I am going to get will be a 200+ amp alternator. Currently I have the stock turbo (will be upgrading in near future as funds come) and stock intercooler as well as the stock injectors and stock chip.

Based on these parts I'd like to know what......
1).... downpipe to get with what size wastegate, external or internal, and the capability of bolting up to the stock turbo and aftermarket and that will fit the hotchkis suspension and bypass the kenne bell exhaust headers.

2)..... what turbo to get? Was thinking about the running at 18lbs of boost max (i think that is safe for an internally stock block), what is safe boost for a internally stock block?

3)..... what injectors should I go with, 42lb or 60lb?

4)..... what fuel pump would be a good fit to supply enough fuel without starving the injectors?

5)..... Is there a need at this point for a ported throttle body once the above are taken care of? (70mm?)

6)..... I've been dying to find out if its possible to get some kind of aftermarket hub or from a different car to change the bolt pattern? I just can't seem to find rims that can be applied to this stock GN.

7)..... wideband O2 sensor? what does it do and is it needed for my future setup?

8)..... Can the stock transmission with stock convertor handle all this mentioned above? I would like to stick to the stock tranny. If an aftermarket built transmission (that bolts right up to the stock block), is better, which one for this setup.

9)..... What valve springs should I get being that they have never been changed and the car is at 101k miles? I am also not going to be changing the cam, keeping it stock. So I would need something a bit better than the valve springs I currently have. I read somewhere that something between 90-95 lbs are perfect for the stock block.

10) what ignition system should I get so that the car can run better with the upgrades? should I stay stock?

11)..... Once this is all figured out by moi, I will be going to turbotweak for a chip based on the stuff I plan on using.

If I am missing something, please tell me. Really want to get this done right. Like I said in the beginning, I don't have HP/Torque target numbers. All the help and advice is greatly appreciated. So far I am learning a lot on this site.

 

[SHADOWII]

Wow! Basics first. perform the spring cleaning section on gnttype.org and determine that there are no mal codes. If everything is satisfactory then you will be able to start your project. (Just don't go faster than your knowledge will allow....it seems the tr and those that offer advice can become targets as reasons for failures, when it was a lack of knowledge that got in the way. Those of us can take some responseability for assuming those asking for more, more, andjust a little bit more!!! Have a working knowledge for which they are asking!?) What I'm saying is go slow and don't blame me for the addiction!!!!
1/Scan-master or some way to monitor the combo. The combo of s-m and p/l, along w/ the w/b o2 can't be beat, w/all data at your finger tips.
2/To free up h/p and tq, the cai and d/p are great. To use the ls-1 maf, you will need a translator, which will in turn require a TT chip. If your stock maf is still good, use it w/the k&n. Make sure you have no vacuum leaks in the assembly. Drop the canister to the frame below it's present mounting and remount it there to give room for the k&n filter. Don't forget to mt. the temp sensor in the air stream, usually the filter. There are different translators and you deed to know what you want from them,ie adj. fuel, timeing etc.
Remember, "if it ain't broke don't fix it".
3/The d/p-can be purchased from the "parts-for-sale" section as a lot of these items are usually for sale as we upgrade, just use common sense in whom you deal with as sometimes there is a weasel that gets in. W/k-b/atr style headers, you will need the proper d/p for clearance. I would recommend the th-style w/internal w/gate, for your performance level. 3" will be more than you will ever need and I wouldn't change the exhaust system until needed. If there are no holes or rust eaten pipes it will do very well, especially w/the drone the larger pipes have a tendency to bring. If you have to run a cat., it's best to purchase a racing converter, if not use a 3"test pipe.
4/For the suspension, read up in the susp. sect. there some good info there for an informed decission.
5/Turbo is dependant on the cash flow. You can go w/journal or ball bearing-several in the 4-sale section-equivalent to a TE-60. Mine had great street manners when coupled to the 9/11 converter. Bison would be better at the turbo advice when you have settled on your final mods. PTE i/c good choice.
6/Max boost is anything w/o knock. "O"!!! knock! Usually 16-17#'s on todays fuel. Caspers offers a gauge as well as an "audible" knock sensor, so you don't have to look at the gauge to see what t level the knock is at, as the sound increases you can get out of it before any damage can be done.
7/Hi-impedance 42's or 60's are good, Eric @TT offers combo's, pumps etc. as well as racetronics, full trottle,etc. for the fuel pumpps and don't forget the adjustable regulator for the fuel rail.
8/If you go w/ the latest translator set-up, the wideband can actually maintain your a/f ratio under full throttle conditions, to a good degree.
9/ported throttle-body not needed, however a RJC power plate is a must for equal air flow to the cylinders, ignition is good to go. Valve springs need to be replaced, can actually go to the lt-1's @105#s, just make sure you check whatever you choose for equal pressure as there has been a variance in springs.
10/The weak link is the transmission and a trans cooler is a must. If you have the abilty to rebuild it w/some hardened parts, you can purchase a great book from Chris @CKperformance and it will help you decide what you want to replace. Otherwise at the very least get a stage-1 from one of the vendors close to you. I have used both Chris and Lonnie Diers of Extreme automatics, and presently have Lonnies stage III in my 87. Rusty of PTC converters can offer you a great choice on coupling the power to the ground.
Hope this helps and don't be afraid of asking stupid questions, we all have them.

 

[TR Custom Parts]

Downpipe to clear ATR/KB style headers....... http://buickgn.com/downpipes.htm

Dual 3" exhaust (NO DRONE!)............. http://buickgn.com/CatBack.htm

Cold air kits......... http://buickgn.com/coldairkits.htm

MAF pipes.......... http://buickgn.com/mafpipes.htm

 

[fatride]

#1 Scan Tool!!!

 

[trixdout]

#1 Scan Tool!!!

Well the scan tool and powerlogger I am definitely getting. Didn't put that in the initial post because it was pretty darn obvious from the reading I've done that's what I NEED.

Downpipe to clear ATR/KB style headers.......

Dual 3" exhaust (NO DRONE!).............

Cold air kits.........

MAF pipes..........

Thank you very much for that. That makes my life a ton easier, but question is now, those downpipes are 4 bolt flanges, my stock one is 3 bolt v flange. Aftermarket turbos will be 4 bolt or 3 bolt. Which downpipe should I get, 3 bolt or 4 bolt? I also hacked up the stock downpipe because well the cat was stuck on it and hollowed out (got the car like that). Currently I don't have the cash for a turbo so I won't be getting the 4 bolt flange turbo anytime soon.

 

[trixdout]

Wow! Basics first. perform the spring cleaning section on gnttype.org and determine that there are no mal codes. If everything is satisfactory then you will be able to start your project. (Just don't go faster than your knowledge will allow....it seems the tr and those that offer advice can become targets as reasons for failures, when it was a lack of knowledge that got in the way. Those of us can take some responseability for assuming those asking for more, more, andjust a little bit more!!! Have a working knowledge for which they are asking!?) What I'm saying is go slow and don't blame me for the addiction!!!!
1/Scan-master or some way to monitor the combo. The combo of s-m and p/l, along w/ the w/b o2 can't be beat, w/all data at your finger tips.
2/To free up h/p and tq, the cai and d/p are great. To use the ls-1 maf, you will need a translator, which will in turn require a TT chip. If your stock maf is still good, use it w/the k&n. Make sure you have no vacuum leaks in the assembly. Drop the canister to the frame below it's present mounting and remount it there to give room for the k&n filter. Don't forget to mt. the temp sensor in the air stream, usually the filter. There are different translators and you deed to know what you want from them,ie adj. fuel, timeing etc.
Remember, "if it ain't broke don't fix it".
3/The d/p-can be purchased from the "parts-for-sale" section as a lot of these items are usually for sale as we upgrade, just use common sense in whom you deal with as sometimes there is a weasel that gets in. W/k-b/atr style headers, you will need the proper d/p for clearance. I would recommend the th-style w/internal w/gate, for your performance level. 3" will be more than you will ever need and I wouldn't change the exhaust system until needed. If there are no holes or rust eaten pipes it will do very well, especially w/the drone the larger pipes have a tendency to bring. If you have to run a cat., it's best to purchase a racing converter, if not use a 3"test pipe.
4/For the suspension, read up in the susp. sect. there some good info there for an informed decission.
5/Turbo is dependant on the cash flow. You can go w/journal or ball bearing-several in the 4-sale section-equivalent to a TE-60. Mine had great street manners when coupled to the 9/11 converter. Bison would be better at the turbo advice when you have settled on your final mods. PTE i/c good choice.
6/Max boost is anything w/o knock. "O"!!! knock! Usually 16-17#'s on todays fuel. Caspers offers a gauge as well as an "audible" knock sensor, so you don't have to look at the gauge to see what t level the knock is at, as the sound increases you can get out of it before any damage can be done.
7/Hi-impedance 42's or 60's are good, Eric @TT offers combo's, pumps etc. as well as racetronics, full trottle,etc. for the fuel pumpps and don't forget the adjustable regulator for the fuel rail.
8/If you go w/ the latest translator set-up, the wideband can actually maintain your a/f ratio under full throttle conditions, to a good degree.
9/ported throttle-body not needed, however a RJC power plate is a must for equal air flow to the cylinders, ignition is good to go. Valve springs need to be replaced, can actually go to the lt-1's @105#s, just make sure you check whatever you choose for equal pressure as there has been a variance in springs.
10/The weak link is the transmission and a trans cooler is a must. If you have the abilty to rebuild it w/some hardened parts, you can purchase a great book from Chris @CKperformance and it will help you decide what you want to replace. Otherwise at the very least get a stage-1 from one of the vendors close to you. I have used both Chris and Lonnie Diers of Extreme automatics, and presently have Lonnies stage III in my 87. Rusty of PTC converters can offer you a great choice on coupling the power to the ground.
Hope this helps and don't be afraid of asking stupid questions, we all have them.

I initially scrolled past your post, thinking it was my long initial post. THANK YOU!!!!! That answer a lot of questions.

I noticed you talked about weasels finding their way in, does that pertain to the used stuff in the for-sale section? RJC power plate, forgot about that, yea thats what I will do. In that case won't the 105# springs actually hurt my cam because they are stronger by 20+#'s than the stock ones?

 

[TR Custom Parts]

Well the scan tool and powerlogger I am definitely getting. Didn't put that in the initial post because it was pretty darn obvious from the reading I've done that's what I NEED.



Thank you very much for that. That makes my life a ton easier, but question is now, those downpipes are 4 bolt flanges, my stock one is 3 bolt v flange. Aftermarket turbos will be 4 bolt or 3 bolt. Which downpipe should I get, 3 bolt or 4 bolt? I also hacked up the stock downpipe because well the cat was stuck on it and hollowed out (got the car like that). Currently I don't have the cash for a turbo so I won't be getting the 4 bolt flange turbo anytime soon.

You remove the stock elbow housing off the turbo to use an aftermarket downpipe.

 

[we4Mateo]

Scantool for sure. But you never mentioned alky. There's no point, imo, to run a TE60 or larger below 20psi. You'd make more power and have better spool with the stock turbo at 20psi with alky. If you NEED to buy a turbo, a TE44/TA49 can't be beat on the street but you'll still need to run it over 20psi to make it sing. If you never race it, stay with the smallest turbo you need. You won't win any cool guy parts awards, but you'll win stoplight races on the cheap. Seems like you have a good start on everything else.

My personal suggestions as I drive and race my car a lot with a stock engine, get your grounds looked at, hotwire the fuel pump and ignition module, and get the good alternator you were speaking of. The electrical is key to reliability. In regards to alternator, voltage is more important than amps. I run 14.5 volts through my system constantly and my alky pump and regular fuel pump love it! No need to get a volt-booster either then. Good luck! Just food for thought, I'm an ok amateur tuner and I run a conservative tune. That being said, I bent all 6 of my rods during a voltage drop with my old stock alternator at 25psi. Starightened the rods and put it all back together with a new cam. Moral is, plan on breaking things if you want to push it. That's the fun part though, how far can you go before breaking things!

 

[trixdout]

Scantool for sure. But you never mentioned alky. There's no point, imo, to run a TE60 or larger below 20psi. You'd make more power and have better spool with the stock turbo at 20psi with alky. If you NEED to buy a turbo, a TE44/TA49 can't be beat on the street but you'll still need to run it over 20psi to make it sing. If you never race it, stay with the smallest turbo you need. You won't win any cool guy parts awards, but you'll win stoplight races on the cheap. Seems like you have a good start on everything else.

My personal suggestions as I drive and race my car a lot with a stock engine, get your grounds looked at, hotwire the fuel pump and ignition module, and get the good alternator you were speaking of. The electrical is key to reliability. In regards to alternator, voltage is more important than amps. I run 14.5 volts through my system constantly and my alky pump and regular fuel pump love it! No need to get a volt-booster either then. Good luck! Just food for thought, I'm an ok amateur tuner and I run a conservative tune. That being said, I bent all 6 of my rods during a voltage drop with my old stock alternator at 25psi. Starightened the rods and put it all back together with a new cam. Moral is, plan on breaking things if you want to push it. That's the fun part though, how far can you go before breaking things!

Alright, gonna get those grounds redone if need be and yes the fuel pump hotwire is a must from what I've read on this forum so far. I really don't want to go alky. Didn't want to run a huge turbo either. So I guess the 44 or 49 would be perfect then. Well if I can run the 44/49 at a little above 20psi I should be fine right, and the turbo will actually do good work right?

Also what ignition system is good for our cars (aftermarket, performance or just an upgraded than stock)? Read somewhere the msd ignition system craps out and isn't all too reliable.

Still need to know about the hubs to change the bolt pattern. Can anyone help with that?

Also does anyone know of guys in the New Jersey area or PA/NY area that have their GN's still and modified a little/stock/alot? Would love to hang out with you guys and get some hands on learning as well.

 

[we4Mateo]

Alright, gonna get those grounds redone if need be and yes the fuel pump hotwire is a must from what I've read on this forum so far. I really don't want to go alky. Didn't want to run a huge turbo either. So I guess the 44 or 49 would be perfect then. Well if I can run the 44/49 at a little above 20psi I should be fine right, and the turbo will actually do good work right?

44/49 will work great but wit a stock intercooler, 20psi will be pushing it sans alky. No worries sticking to a non-alky tune though. Many run that way with good success but a front mount is almost needed to run no alky at 20psi on a 44/49.

Also what ignition system is good for our cars (aftermarket, performance or just an upgraded than stock)? Read somewhere the msd ignition system craps out and isn't all too reliable.

Bob Bailey TR6 unless your stock coil and module are working well. If so, wait until the stock stuff doesn't work; and it will.

 

[SHADOWII]

Still need to know about the hubs to change the bolt pattern. Can anyone help with that?

Also does anyone know of guys in the New Jersey area or PA/NY area that have their GN's still and modified a little/stock/alot? Would love to hang out with you guys and get some hands on learning as well.

For info on the hubs go to the suspension section and you will be able to get a better response.
There are plenty of guys in jersey running TR's. Check the north-eastern area for contact info in the regional section or start another Thread and ask to connect w/them. MAGNA group.

 

[trixdout]

For info on the hubs go to the suspension section and you will be able to get a better response.
There are plenty of guys in jersey running TR's. Check the north-eastern area for contact info in the regional section or start another Thread and ask to connect w/them. MAGNA group.

Ok awesome thank you!