Anybody watch the Peter Jennings/ABCNEWS special on the JFK assassination?

[86brick]

Zapruder video......

http://users.snowcrest.net/marnells/zapruder.avi


****WARNING IT IS VERY GRAPHIC!!!!!****

IF the moderators or Bruce feel they have to delete this by all means do so........

 

[GN ERGY]

I've watched the History channel all week. They showed the film in slow motion and your head doesn't go backwards when you are shot from the back. The back of JFKs head explodes. Thats from a frontal shot.
They talked to a guy who worked at Ford motors in detroit that got the limo in to replace the front window which had a bullet hole thru it.
The bullet they showed on TV is a full metal jacket military bullet. It is designed NOT to expane because of some Geneva convention agreement. We would have a lot more dead and horribly wounded soldiers if they were allowed to use a soft point or ( hunting bullets. )
My opinion is there was more than 1 shooter.
Tarey D.

 

[86brick]

Originally posted by GN ERGY
I've watched the History channel all week. They showed the film in slow motion and your head doesn't go backwards when you are shot from the back. The back of JFKs head explodes. Thats from a frontal shot.
They talked to a guy who worked at Ford motors in detroit that got the limo in to replace the front window which had a bullet hole thru it.
The bullet they showed on TV is a full metal jacket military bullet. It is designed NOT to expane because of some Geneva convention agreement. We would have a lot more dead and horribly wounded soldiers if they were allowed to use a soft point or ( hunting bullets. )
My opinion is there was more than 1 shooter.
Tarey D.

Yeah after finding the Zapruder video on the 'net and watching it several times it is clear that he was shot from the front..... If I had found this vid and watched it yesterday I seriously doubt I would have watched much of Peter Jennings spewing that BS!!!! I mean who in the hell do they think they are fooling?? This vid is all the evidence I need!!!

Conspiracy? Yes! Oswald, the assassin? NO! He (Oswald) was just a patsy........

 

[Vendor Defendor]

yeah, i think there are more shooters than we know of... any one ever see that movie JFK (i think thats what its called) i think Tommy Lee Jones lays Oswald. a teacher showed it to us in class, and i dont know if its all fact, but they make a lot of good points, like how can a bullet go in some one, make a 90* turn, go 6 inches, make a 30* bend, and repeat this like 6 times.. they talk about the hole in the windshield and all that stuff.

they also talk about where the bullet came from, because he made a point of repeating, 'back, and to the left. back and to the left back, and to the left...'

Any time there is something on about this subject , Roswell, and the Pyramids I eat it up, can't get enough.

yeah, i am the same way about that kind of stuff, hopfully i will know the answers before my time comes. i can handle the truth, i dont know about anyone else, i just want to know if we are really alone here or not.

 

[SMS]

One theory I havent seen here is the "MOB" theory. Joe Kennedy basically bought his son the presidency using his ties to the mob, who in turn expected certain "favors". When Kennedy was elected president, he thumbed his nose at them and appointed his brother Bobby as attorney general. Bobby cracked down on organized crime and you know what happened after that!

 

[6pack]

Vendor...Gary Oldman played Oswald....forgot exactly who Tommy Lee Jones portrayed. Anyone ever wonder why Uncle Teddy never seemed to get into the issue and is still around today and has never run for President

 

[Gothmog]

If Oswald shot him, his brains would have blown FOWARD not backward
End of story.

 

[buickman69]

Originally posted by 6pack
Vendor...Gary Oldman played Oswald....forgot exactly who Tommy Lee Jones portrayed. Anyone ever wonder why Uncle Teddy never seemed to get into the issue and is still around today and has never run for President

Tommy Lee portrayed Clay Shaw AKA Clay Burtrain. The ONLY man EVER brought to trial for the murder of JFK.

I don't doubt the MOB assisting in the murder plot BUT there is NO-WAY they pulled it off by theirselfs.

 

[turbot2496]

Gotta throw this out there for you guys and my flame suit is on

Did you guys know that over the years that the actual forensic evidence of the crime has been gone over countless times by the best people in the business with newer and newer technology and you know what. The Pro's have all concluded that the Warren commission was right. The audio tape the conspiracy people had for years which they said conclusively proved there were four shots has been proven to not even have been recorded at the time of the shooting. So much evidence has been shown that now people who still say there was a shooter on the grassy knoll admit that he didn't hit anything but that he was still there. Ballistics experts have proven that the head can and would react excatly as it did in the zapruder film even though logically it doesn't make sense. The best forensics experts in the country with years of experience in gunshot wounds agree with this. Ballistics is kinda like the intakes on our GN's. Nobody would believe putting a plate with holes in it inbetween the plenum and manifold would help with performance because common sense says it has to be a restriction, but low and behold after countless debates and testing, the consensus is that it does work.
Now another funny thing about the whole deal is the conspiracy theorist who makes a living off of this stuff(and a good living it is some of these cats have made millions). If he can't throw interesting and shocking theories at you then who would want to read his book or watch his show. The best book I ever read on the subject was the one by Posner called Case Closed. In this book he went into a in depth look at the facts and at Oswald sharing facts about him that I had never read anywhere else. Basically instead of telling you every far out reason he couldn't have done it alone he showed you all the reasoning that he did and it is very compelling. Also interesting enough he interviewed alot of the witnesses that the conspiracy people love to quote and found out that most of these people couldn't keep their storys straight or that they were misquoted or that their statements were taken out of context ie. "If he killed the president I would be suprised" and "he killed the president" would be the quote taken from this statement. Also another thing Posner found out is many of these people wanted to be paid 'again' for their interviews hmmmmm.
In conclusion to shorten this up, Pesci's character in the farout movie JFK was right.'We can't handle the truth' We can't handle the fact that one guy managed to take out the president. We can't handle the fact that the secret service and many people involved with this just basically fell down on the job this day and made alot of mistakes. People have said that its just fortunate that Reagan wasn't killed and his killer survived also or else we would be doing all this mental masturbation over that too. Who would think a psycho in love with a movie star would try to shoot the president to impress her ..... yeah right, Bush was behind the whole thing LOL.

 

[DonnieShort]

I don't mean to get graphic here, but when you watch the video and slow it down the bullit that hits his head ( the right temple ) upon impact throws his head back and to his left indicating that it came from his right side. A shot from the back would not and could not have done that. It defies the laws of physics. Now I don't have a problem with the lone gunman if in fact that's what happened. But there are witnesses that have been discounted because it doesn't follow the Warren Commission findings. If you haven't watched ' The Men Who Killed Kennedy' on the History Channel then I highly recommend you check it out. And like some have already mentioned, I tend to belive the LBJ theory and if you watch ' The Men Who Killed Kennedy' you will see all of the holes pointed out in the Warren report and it is very compelling evidence.

 

[Buick From Hell]

more proof the media machine still works...

Do you really believe those who came up with the Warren Commission report (which was engineered to make the public believe Oswald did it, period) simply quit when they were done with it? No, I'm afraid keeping the public believing what they WANT us to believe is a never-ending job.

The audio tape of the 4 shots "has been proven to not even have been recorded at the time of the shooting." Exactly who proved it, and how? Several witnesses heard more than 3 shots. But gee, those statements never made the news (or the Warren commission report). Care to hear the 4 shots? Click here

And take a look at the magic bullet. Regardless of whether or not it's possible for this thing to make 3 turns while moving 2000+ feet per second this bullet (according to the WC report) went thru Kennedy's neck, then smashed 4" of Connely's 5th rib and the large bones in right wrist, then imbedded in his thigh... then fell out onto the stretcher at the hospital(?)...After all that, there's not so much as a scratch on the bullet other than the riflings.

uh huh.

 

[turbot2496]

Well, I will tackle these good points one at a time and try to explain as best I can from what I've read and watched.

1. The show on the history channel.---Well I watched the show and I was not very impressed. It was very biased towards all the conspiracy theories and stuff that would admittedly be dismissed in any court of law as heresay. Now the thing about most of the conspiracy theorists out there is that the develop there theory before they look at the facts. For example... There was a shooter on the grassy knoll. Now if I wanted to prove this what would I do. Lets say I have 20 witnesses that all heard shots coming from different directions. I would gather the 3 or 4 that say they heard shots from the grassy knoll and I would present them to you to prove my point ignoring the other 15 or so witnessess that say they heard shots from somewhere else. See my point on how a biased point of view is relayed. Many witnesses were left out of the history channel show that could have disputed what was said but that would not have been good TV. There are hours and hours of interviews on this case and anybody could pick and choose what they wanted to prove anything to you. You have to take ALL the interviews and all the evidence into account to come up with a conclusion and most if not all your conspiracy theorists have not done this.

2. Zapruder Video. Excellent piece of evidence convicting Oswald but easily misinterpreted by the amatuer. The best ballistic experts on the planet have recreated the exact things shown in the zapruder video. Head movement and everything. They have also proved beyond all shadow of a doubt that no shot from the grassy knoll hit the president. Most conspiracy theorist have had to concede this but now claim that the shot from the grassy knoll missed. Court TV had a show called foresic files or something that covered all this from a very technical point of view that was extremly compelling. I don't know if you watch the forensic shows on HBO but the expert that does that show was on this one(very sharp dude)and he along with many others concluded after seeing all the evidence that indeed the shots came from the book depository.

3. Audio tape of the 4 shots. This piece of evidence is kind of funny just from the fact of how it was discovered to have been recorded a minute after the shooting even took place. An amatuer was listening to a flimsy plastic album of this and heard voices in the background that were actually said a minute after the shooting took place. He came forward with this and lo and behold he was right, no gunshots on the tape just background noise and the officer talking in the background real lightly saying things that were said a minute after the shooting. The Court TV show paid for an in depth study of the tape and came up with the same conclusion. Tape of 4 shots is crap wasn't even recorded at the time the prez was shot.

4. Majic bullet. Court TV show and Posners book explained this really well also. They had a neat graphic of the bullet traveling and you can see that it actually did go straight and made no majical turns in mid air. It did graze of the rib and went through Conley's wrist but other than that it was a straight shot. Ballistics experts actually proved that this type of bullet after striking the flesh or something can tumble in the air causing weird effects. The wound on the back of Conley proves that the bullet entered him traveling sideways. Also they showed comparison bullets that were fired through simulations that looked as undamaged as the so called majic bullet. Also the majic bullet was neutron tested and matched to fragments which were taken from his wrist proving with the best technology we have that it was the bullet which struck the president and Conley. The majic bullet was also matched to the gun recovered from the book depository proving that it was actually shot from that gun. Never saw this on the history channel did ya yet its common knowledge.

Buick from Hell I used to kinda feel the same way you did but after reading a ton of crap written by these conspiracy theorists who all have there own ideals I luckily came across some truth based on all the evidence not just a few select witnesses. If you ever get the chance catch the show on Court TV where they talk about all the evidence. Its a real eye opener. Posners book is also real good if you can take the time. Its called Case Closed and he goes in depth about the silliness of alot of the conspiracy theories and the evidence and witnesses behind them. Its so easy to go out and find, for example, all the reasons that LBJ was behind it. But then you have to ignore all the evidence that proves he had nothing to do with it. A Warren commission has to look at everything unlike the conspiracy theorist who makes his theory and goes out and finds his witnesses and ignores everything that goes against his theory forcing us to have to find it ourselves. This post was way to long and I apologize but I hope it helps. Very interesting and intellegent discussion.

 

[DonnieShort]

Explain Malcom Wallace's fingerprint on the box at the window that was used for steadying the rifle, the same window that Oswald supposedly shot from. The fingerprint, which was a 34 point match and more than enough to convict anyone, was dismissed by the FBI in 18 months time as no match? How is that possible? The guy that matched the print said anybody who knew anything at all about fingerprinting could see that it matched. He was the foremost expert on fingerprinting in the country and he said if he was to drop dead right now his death statement would be, " They Match! " But yet it was dismissed and buried, by none other than J Edgar Hoover's FBI.

And what about the fact that Bobby Kennedy was about to bring LBJ up on a host of corruption charges. The crap was going to fly until JFK got killed and when LBJ took over he ( LBJ ) had control over everything needed to keep the truth hidden. and it really wouldn't have taken much to do. Eventhough it was sloppy, for the time however it was enough to keep most off the trail and back then the media didn't report the way they do now. If that had happened in this day and age, everyone involved would have been caught because of how sloppy it was.

 

[Mac in SD]

I agree with TurboT2496...the best researchers are tending to confirm WC. Posner is one of the most thorough researcher around.

As far as the "magic bullet," anyone who's been around wounded personnel knows that bullets do incredible things while traversing and exiting a body. Entry and exit wounds often make no sense whatsoever...bizarre stuff. The wildest I ever saw was a 7.62 entry in the upper arm that went along the shoulder and neck, and exited out under the eye. (The guy lived, too.) Once a bullet makes contact, it's got a mind of its own.

Finally, it's often tough - I mean tough - to get a bearing on a source of small arms fire, even when that fire is continuous. You almost always hear the crack or the buzz before you hear the muzzle report. Talk about disorienting (bit of a pucker factor.) Now, three shots in a plaza of high-rises, with all the echos... there's lots of room for error as far as "ear withnesses."

JMHO.

 

[black heat]

JFK assasination theories

Just theories, but as good as anyone's.

 

[turbot2496]

Well Donnie it appears we have different information on this

1. It was a 14 point match, not a 34 point match. It is NOT uncommon to have a set of prints that have many matching points, but when they find points that DO NOT match, these negate the matching points. This is the case with this fingerprint. This fingerprint has been under much dispute and nothing concrete has ever been proven. FBI burial of this information is pure hearsay. Print has never been proven to have been Wallace's and could have truthfully been anybodys.

2. Bobby Kennedy about to bring LBJ up on charges--- No fact here. This is also hearsay from supposed witnesses. Not admissable in court and really not relevant. Pure conspiracy stuff.

 

[Vendor Defendor]

Originally posted by turbot2496
Well Donnie it appears we have different information on this

1. It was a 14 point match, not a 34 point match.

with the interview of the guy, i am sorry, but his name slipped my mind, who was the 'best fingerprinter in the country' said it was a 34 point match with his interview with the History Channel

 

[turbot2496]

Yeah... I know. They all claim that their the best expert in the country. You get paid more that way. The original match was a supposed 14 point match that was done in 1998 by a guy named Darby. Took awhile to figure this out I guess or to find someone tied in someway to LBJ that had a similar fingerprint. To which when presented was also disputed by other experts for the facts that there were points that didn't match. Also if the FBI and Warren commission wanted to cover this up why did they leave this unknown print in the actual files all these years. Why not git rid of it at the time. Hmmmmm. Also you can argue that someone who would want to frame LBJ could have planted this print. You see this crap can go either way. These are the hurdles the Warren commission had to hurdle and that you have to too. You can't just look at some of the evidence and totally disregard the rest.

 

[88 CuttyClassic]

Re: Gotta throw this out there for you guys and my flame suit is on

Originally posted by turbot2496
Did you guys know that over the years that the actual forensic evidence of the crime has been gone over countless times by the best people in the business with newer and newer technology and you know what. The Pro's have all concluded that the Warren commission was right.

What pro's?? Dr cyril Wect, the michael jordan/babe ruth of forensic pathologists, the man eveyone in the country goes to for his opinion, said the warren commision is full of it. cyril wect has been involved in many high profile cases such as jon bene ramsey. He's always on TV and his opinion is the most respected out of anyone in the field. He lives here in pittsburgh and my dad has had a chance to talk to him before. He and other experts just had a 4 day conference in pittsburgh to disprove the warren report and other thngs such as the peter jennings special. These experts ripped apart any theory that concludes oswald is the only shooter. THESE GUYS are the pros, not people like Sen. arlen specter(PA) who came up with the magic bullet theory.

In the peter jennings special they talked about the magic bullet theory and showed how it could make the wounds and it all made sense till the bullet came out connelly's chest, after that they just stopped and didn't talk about the other two wounds it made after that. That right there proves that special was bogus, they couldn't even fully prove there point because its physically impossible to prove with in reason. that would be like me saying the Hurst olds is the fastest g-body in the world cause it beats grandprix's and el camino's But i forget to say monte carlo ss and turbo regals.

 

[88 CuttyClassic]

Re: JFK assasination theories

Originally posted by black heat
Theories, theories, theories: They're just like BB, everyone has one. So, here are few of mine to to share with you.

1. The mob theory is pretty convincing. Sure, JFK was hosing the mob's baby doll, and thats enough to piss off any good Godfather.

2. The LBJ theory is an OK one, but not too convincing. He had too much to loose by nailing JFK.

3. The Commie theory (lots of them out there) is pretty heady stuff; Nikita and Fidel wanted a piece of his butt, cause JFK screwed up their plan to take over the world.

4. And finally (this will really pissss off those JFK haters), the republican party wanted his asss out of the way, so that they could take over the country--most plausible because JFK stood in their way (along with Bobby) for the next several years.

5. And don't forget the far out right and left wings, who didn't like the way JFK was handling the civil rights movement.


:

its not dumb luck that oswald killed the president with all these other people that had motive. there is too much coincidence and evidence towards the other people to believe this guy acted alone.

How about the fact that 3 shell casings were found on the floor. That means oswald would have recycled the gun after the head shoot, why? If he did shoot he would have saw through the scoope what happened and they wasn't time for another shoot cause the car was now too far away. But lets say for the sake of it he did recycle the gun, why was there no bullet in the chamber ready to fired when the they examined the gun? The 3 shells were planted!!! thats WHY!!!! If there is not a bullet in the chamber it wasn't recycled and therfore there wouldn't be 3 casings on the ground.