Anyone running propane injection?

[Quick6'n'-K.C.]

http://www.importpoweronline.com/propane/kit.jpg


please fill me in on your kit,-- im not flaming, just CURIOUS

i was just looking at the regulator, valve, petcock, and male hose barb-

i have a few Q's

1. the male barb with the yellow ring around it, is a press-on style, not a crimp on style-- what brand hose is this that connects to it?

PARKER?, WEATHERHEAD?, GATES? ECT and what is the psi rating of the hose-- is it single or double wire hose?


2. besides the regulator, what are you using as a tip injecting the propane into the motor?

3. is there propane oil in a vapor tank?
4. how many kits have you sold, and got any LINKS to the people using them with details-
thanks
bryan wanner

 

[import power on]

Originally posted by Quick6'n'-K.C.
http://www.importpoweronline.com/propane/kit.jpg


please fill me in on your kit,-- im not flaming, just CURIOUS

i was just looking at the regulator, valve, petcock, and male hose barb-

i have a few Q's

1. the male barb with the yellow ring around it, is a press-on style, not a crimp on style-- what brand hose is this that connects to it?

PARKER?, WEATHERHEAD?, GATES? ECT and what is the psi rating of the hose-- is it single or double wire hose?


2. besides the regulator, what are you using as a tip injecting the propane into the motor?

3. is there propane oil in a vapor tank?
4. how many kits have you sold, and got any LINKS to the people using them with details-
thanks
bryan wanner

1. You are correct, good eye. Since the fuel line is dead from the solenoid to the motor until it is activated by boost, and the line is not pluged at the motor end, the pressure potential even given full tank pressure would be 100psi. We are using GoodYear InstaGrip fuel line. Rated to 250PSI amde for Push on connectors, HIGH fuel and oil resistance

2. Connector refered to in #1 is the injector for the motor side

3. Vapor

4. we sold 22 systems last week

 

[Quick6'n'-K.C.]

Temperature (F) Vapor Pressure (psi)
-30F 5psi
-20F 14psi
-10F 26psi
0F 39psi
10F 56psi
20F 75psi
30F 97psi
40F 122psi
50F 152psi
60F 186psi
70F 224psi
80F 268psi
90F 317psi
100F 371psi

im still curious-- so if the hose is rated to 250 psi, and the regulator is ONLY going to supply 125 psi of output psi--
then there will be no worries right?
even if its 95 degrees out, and my car is sitting out in the sun???

oh yeah-- on your test vehicle, you show datalogged graphs that i cant really/ dont wish to understand--
do you have any realworld back to back testing pump gas vs propane, 100 octane vs propane, 104 vs propane, 110 vs propane, 116 vs propane??
THAT would help some of us out, cause i can see the #'s at the track and understand et's vs. mph!!!

thanks
bryan wanner

 

[import power on]

The tank temp versus tank pressure would be a scenerio if NO regulator was used. As tank temp rises the pressure rises. Without a regulator the output would change whenver tank temp changes. Therefore if you tune it when the tank is 80 degrees then it rises to 100 degrees your setting are now all off.

We chose a high flow High psi regulator to address this problem. with our system you set it at a psi outup and it stays, NO MATTER what temp the tank is or how full it is. Until it get too empty of course.

Since the hose is never "blocked" from flow since it can and will empty to the intake, the most line pressure it will see is going to be lower than the set PSI set on the reg.

 

[1320]

This was interesting......

I don t think its for me......but hey yesterday I got in the car....and saw 175 degrees......inside the car.......not engine temp.....I get air intake temps all the time on the freeway at 75mph (cold air set up) at 125.......come to a stop in traffic and it skyrockets....



It was like 117 the other day.......

interesting reading though......I d like to see Jays kit....should be interesting....

 

[tminer]

Originally posted by ekool


First off, ambient temperature is not going to change pressure in itself.

Wrong! Granted, a sudden change in ambient temperature may not show an immediate effect, but that is just splitting hairs. Given the choice of regulating pressure via a regular or varying bottle temp with a heater, I'll pick the regulator. Is the bottle heater closed loop ? If not then it will be effected by ambient temperature also. They are fine for racing where you can adjust for the current conditions (temperature and amount of fluid left in the bottle), but somewhat less than pratical for a daily driver, pro tourer, etc.

I would like to see a boost compensating regulator though. It is bad enough that flow is constant despite rpm and "load", but I wouldn't want it to decrease as boost increases. May be OK, but not optimal.

Anyone found a gaseous injector at a reasonable price that is physically the same as standard automotive fuel injectors? I have an ATR 7th that is just crying for propane and closed loop control!

Tom

 

[Quick6'n'-K.C.]

you might want to contact someone in KNOXVILLE tennessee, the university there converted 5 turbo buicks to run on propane-

i have no idea how they did it, but do know that they did use the stock fuel rail--

hth

wanner@kc.rr.com

 

[import power on]

Originally posted by tminer


Wrong! Granted, a sudden change in ambient temperature may not show an immediate effect, but that is just splitting hairs. Given the choice of regulating pressure via a regular or varying bottle temp with a heater, I'll pick the regulator. Is the bottle heater closed loop ? If not then it will be effected by ambient temperature also. They are fine for racing where you can adjust for the current conditions (temperature and amount of fluid left in the bottle), but somewhat less than pratical for a daily driver, pro tourer, etc.



Tom

Thank you!

This is why we chose to use a High Pressure (0-100psi) High Flow regulator. With tank Pressure changing from 186psi @ 60F to 371psi @ 100F how could anyone regulate the amount (pressure) coming from the tank? And Yes, it is easy to find a car that will span these temps with a tank in a car. On a daily basis.

No regulator? Not in our systems.....

 

[The Radius Kid]

At this point I would like to ask the same question I asked Jay;Is this kit available with steel braided line[external] for all fuel feeds?I think NHRA demands it for any non-metal fuel feed line on a race car.The pushlocks I'm not crazy about either,but they are proven to work to a point.I would get them checked for leakage every six months or so,more often if you drive the vehicle daily.

 

[import power on]

Originally posted by The Radius Kid
At this point I would like to ask the same question I asked Jay;Is this kit available with steel braided line[external] for all fuel feeds?I think NHRA demands it for any non-metal fuel feed line on a race car.The pushlocks I'm not crazy about either,but they are proven to work to a point.I would get them checked for leakage every six months or so,more often if you drive the vehicle daily.

Our kit locks the propane closed at the tank for safety reasons, Meaning there is never high pressure in the fuel line from the tank to the intake-the fuel line from tank to motor is dead until the set pressure is reached then the LPG Solenoid at the tank opens and shoots propane through the fuel line to the motor. Being that the fuel line is "OPEN" into the intake and not closed there is not a very "HIGH" pressure buildup then either. So we do not have the need for High pressure Steel Braided line. This also allows for the $350 shipped price.

We do however use a very high quality GoodYear High pressure 250psi rated High oil High Heat fuel line.

 

[The Radius Kid]

At the risk of sounding offensive[which I don't intend to be],go back and read my last post again and try and grasp the gist of what I'm saying.

 

[import power on]

Originally posted by The Radius Kid
At the risk of sounding offensive[which I don't intend to be],go back and read my last post again and try and grasp the gist of what I'm saying.

Are you saying SS lines for Regulation purpuses at the track?

If so, I did not catch that...

Sorry, we only have the 250psi Fuel line. You could fit it though i guess

 

[import power on]

Just got back from running the system as we sell it. We took a complete kit, I had 23 yr old girl install it using our instructions. Took her 2 hours with her directing me what to do to help a little.

Stats:
Twin TEC 17G's set at 22PSI
Set regulator to 85psi
Set needle vavle to 1 1/2 turns

Without Propane we were running up to 920C EGT at the end of 3rd WOT (that is getting close to UH OH temps) and hitting high teens low 20's knock (detonation) BAD

With propane we couldn't for trying get EGT's to go over 820C and that took three back to back WOT full 3rd gear runs to Redline. It started end of 3rd at 800C. After hitting and hitting it, 820C was all she would go. Knock peaked at 4knocks a few times but while staying in WOT the propane killed it to ZERO. And Timing was climbing as it should with no knock. It was pulling like a raped ape.

We are very happy with the results to say the least.

 

[Quick6'n'-K.C.]

Without Propane we were running up to 920C EGT at the end of 3rd WOT (that is getting close to UH OH temps) and hitting high teens low 20's knock (detonation) BAD

what kind of car was this on?

will you be able to get ONE of the test cars to the track and do a back to back run with and without the propane??

id just like to see how much more boost you are going to be able to run with the propane

if you have sold some of the kits to the turbobuick guys, then id DEFINITELY like to see some of their results also-

thanks
wanner@kc.rr.com

 

[turbowrenchhead]

I have not seen what kind of boost levels you are running with no propane and with. In short how much can you turn up the boost with propane?

 

[import power on]

With 91 octane gas we are able to get 14 psi maybe creep into 15psi before knock sets in and timing goes to crap.

With propane we are at the limit of our Tec 17G twins which is 22psi to redline (7,000rpm) and still little to no knock

 

[import power on]

See car and all Mods here:
http://www.importpoweronline.com/propanelogs.html

 

[JayC]

I had resigned myself to stay out of this thread but to answer your question, yes, we are using steel braided line. Also, after seeing pictures of IPO's system, I can safely say that the two systems are pretty different in theory and construction and as I said before, we have been track and street testing. If you want to know anything specific regarding the setup on a Buick, drop Kenny an email or post it here and I will have Kenny answer you.

Since we are running our system at well over 100 PSI, I can't really say how well what we have done will relate back to IPO's kit but at least it's a baseline to start with.

 

[Quick6'n'-K.C.]

JAY-

at least show us some pics of some installs ON A BUICK!!

all we want is some track numbers, boost numbers, egt numbers, and how well it works in comparison to the alky kit


thanks

 

[import power on]

I am interested in the other kit as well. I am interested in the Regulator used to get over 100PSI. We looked and looked and 100psi was the highest reg we could find.

Not a bad thing though, even running 80psi she delivers more than enuf.

Guess you could run no reg, but that would cause a 180psi tank pressure difference form a tank that was 60 F and 100F.

We found it to be way to unpredictable and wanted a more stable "known" output. So we added the High Flow High Pressure Reg.