Anyone using SMC's new variable boost speed controller?
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Hmm.
I have a TE44, intercooler and 1/2, THDP, cold air kit, no cat, no mufflers, and 2800 stall converter. 93 octane.
I run 22lbs of boost.
I don't start to get knock until around 17lbs.
However, the best "spray on" point that I cound find is not 15lbs, 12lbs, or even 10lbs, but 7 lbs.
So, if I go WOT, and I shoot up to 22lbs, the pump will be spraying just as much at 7lbs as it will be at 22lbs. Of course, this is assuming the pump is quick enough to get the alchy there in time. It may start at 7lbs, but it may not get there until 12 or 15? Right?
But, if I do NOT go full WOT, if I am just 75% throttle, and lets say I am just cruising at 7-10lbs of boost, my kit will be spraying 100% speed, when I don't need it to be.
Wont this effect my tuning/O2's, etc?
TIA!
I have a TE44, intercooler and 1/2, THDP, cold air kit, no cat, no mufflers, and 2800 stall converter. 93 octane.
I run 22lbs of boost.
I don't start to get knock until around 17lbs.
However, the best "spray on" point that I cound find is not 15lbs, 12lbs, or even 10lbs, but 7 lbs.
So, if I go WOT, and I shoot up to 22lbs, the pump will be spraying just as much at 7lbs as it will be at 22lbs. Of course, this is assuming the pump is quick enough to get the alchy there in time. It may start at 7lbs, but it may not get there until 12 or 15? Right?
But, if I do NOT go full WOT, if I am just 75% throttle, and lets say I am just cruising at 7-10lbs of boost, my kit will be spraying 100% speed, when I don't need it to be.
Wont this effect my tuning/O2's, etc?
TIA!
Someone else that has a problem with turnon points..humm...
Your situation is exactly has been experienced by myself and a bunch of friends that have run alky kits..too high its pings..too low it drowns.. the fix is.. to have better control of the alcohol being discharged... Some here claim not to have these knock issues, I have personally have experienced this "in the past".
Temporary fixes are run less pump speed and less boost. If you run only 20 PSI as the kit recommends, you may get away with a 12 PSI turnon, problem is when you run more than that..becuase the kit wasnt designed with running over 20 PSI, then you get these issues. And drop the appropriate chip timing tables to assist with the knock.
I know you didnt want to hear this, but I thought I'd share.
Buick Beginner
Where is my $$$ going?
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The dummy chimes in!
OK, I'm new to the world of Alky, but I'm going to shoot off my mouth anyway. Let's just say you have an SMC kit set to turn on at 7 PSI at a pump speed of 5 or 6. Just enough to keep you out of KR until you reach much higher boost levels. Then in addition, you have a positive lead from an ignition source, which runs through another pressure switch, say, under the hood somewhere set to 15 PSI. The pressure switches are around $20 a piece I do believe. Now, wouldn't the following take place: At 7 PSI the pump kicks on at it's number 6 or 7 setting, things are going good. Then at 15 PSI your second switch clicks on and allows full voltage (straight from an ignition source) to the SMC pump increasing the flow to it's maximum capability. Am I on the right track, or is that faulty logic? - BB
OK, I'm new to the world of Alky, but I'm going to shoot off my mouth anyway. Let's just say you have an SMC kit set to turn on at 7 PSI at a pump speed of 5 or 6. Just enough to keep you out of KR until you reach much higher boost levels. Then in addition, you have a positive lead from an ignition source, which runs through another pressure switch, say, under the hood somewhere set to 15 PSI. The pressure switches are around $20 a piece I do believe. Now, wouldn't the following take place: At 7 PSI the pump kicks on at it's number 6 or 7 setting, things are going good. Then at 15 PSI your second switch clicks on and allows full voltage (straight from an ignition source) to the SMC pump increasing the flow to it's maximum capability. Am I on the right track, or is that faulty logic? - BB
I am wondering the same thing about propain (solenoid duty cycle instead of pump speed) except on the controller is a second adjustment for "overboost" that I am about to wire up to the other side of the duty cycle pot to provide full voltage and in essence a second stage. Just tune it with jet sizes for WFO. Don't see why it wouldn't work the same with Alky.
Add a hobbs switch to an SMC kit and make it twin stage..only thing is you run into a couple possible problems, one is that the SMC controller runs by applying a ground to make the pump turn. So you will see 12 volts on the pump already..what happens is that the duty cycle is pulse width modulated cuasing the slower speed..so the question is will the controller get hurt if you apply ground to the pump- and/or will the pump? Also..maybe applying ground to the pump and cuasing full output possibly generate too much pressure for your application..using a 35 amp relay and having it disconnect/reconnect a ground? Dont know if disconnecting load then reconnecting it when the pressure comes down will hurt the controller.... your close 
You all are welcome to try it
.. whats the worst thing that can happen? You burnup the controller?
You all are welcome to try it
.. whats the worst thing that can happen? You burnup the controller? Buick Beginner
Where is my $$$ going?
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Dog-gone-it
Julio - You're speaking electronic-esse again. Now I hafta go look all this stuff up in the electronic encyclopedia. - BB
Julio - You're speaking electronic-esse again. Now I hafta go look all this stuff up in the electronic encyclopedia. - BB
But what I am suggesting is to basicaly Hotwire the pump speed potentiometer when the second switch is activated. I don't know it the pump speed runs on +12v or ground, but it must be one or the other and simplying whichever to the other side of the pot will make it think it is all the way at 100% and the pump follows. Understand?
TTA:
You are right that the proper way to do a "2 stage" setup would be a relay that when closed would substitute a different resistor vale in place of the pump speed control. As Razor mentioned- you WILL fry your controller if you try to switch the hi-voltage at the pump connection. We made several "special order" kits like this sometime back- but I always knew the best way to do it would be a fully electronic progressive controller like we have now. And it's less complicated to install or tune.
You are right that the proper way to do a "2 stage" setup would be a relay that when closed would substitute a different resistor vale in place of the pump speed control. As Razor mentioned- you WILL fry your controller if you try to switch the hi-voltage at the pump connection. We made several "special order" kits like this sometime back- but I always knew the best way to do it would be a fully electronic progressive controller like we have now. And it's less complicated to install or tune.
I understand, the problem is once you bypass the pot, what the output will be is the question. Some cars may like 10 others may not. And depending on which SMC controller you have, jumping the pot may not be a very good idea. Least it shows your thinking.
Steve's kit was designed for 20 PSI on a mild/stock GN. It works well at this level with correct chip tuning and a moderate turnon point. Exceeding the 20 PSI mark, throws a lot of new variables and problems.
Still havent heard him respond to the GN issue with transitional knock with cars running over 20 PSI and applying his new controller for this purpose.
UrbsNSpices
Go-fast Boat
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I am trying so sort a few things out, sorry if this is the wrong thread for this..
You would typically want to spray through a shift right?
At a shift point you are going to have a momentary drop in boost. Is this enough to shut the solenoid?
If you had a variable system you could lower the turn on point with out bogging and solve this issue?
An either boost or maf variable system seems like the obvious progression, but I am trying to figure out the situations where it would help the most.
You would typically want to spray through a shift right?
At a shift point you are going to have a momentary drop in boost. Is this enough to shut the solenoid?
If you had a variable system you could lower the turn on point with out bogging and solve this issue?
An either boost or maf variable system seems like the obvious progression, but I am trying to figure out the situations where it would help the most.
Order the two stage kit from SMC, run the one nozzle like normal, the other line needs to go through a NOS solenoid and then to the up pipe, have the NOS solenoid hooked to a hobbs switch set at 20 lbs, or what ever you want the second nozzle to come on at........you now have a true dual stage setup. Progressive is still better though.
Jeff
Jeff
Red Regal T
Senior Member
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Originally posted by Razor
Set the Hobbs to 20.. but the kit is designed for only 20
No more comments from me
Why not? Sounds like a fair comment.
salvageV6
Daily Driver
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I'm at 22lb.s also with 23* timing on the GN single nozzle. Stock turbo and heads and cam and all. Eric Marshall alky. chip.
salvageV6 is at 25psi. with dual nozzles staged for 2nd turn on at 20 psi. Bigger turbo stock heads and cam. Maxeffort chip and 20* timing with 24* used at the track.
I don't think you are accurate on your design parameters for the kit unless you are talking about trying to run high boost and very high timing at the same time.
I would just email or talk to Steve Hill on that one.
I am going to try the Shurflo pump on salvageV6 with the staging and SMC type nozzles.
salvageV6 is at 25psi. with dual nozzles staged for 2nd turn on at 20 psi. Bigger turbo stock heads and cam. Maxeffort chip and 20* timing with 24* used at the track.
I don't think you are accurate on your design parameters for the kit unless you are talking about trying to run high boost and very high timing at the same time.
I would just email or talk to Steve Hill on that one.
I am going to try the Shurflo pump on salvageV6 with the staging and SMC type nozzles.
