Anyone using SMC's new variable boost speed controller?

[WE4TurboT]

Set the Hobbs to 20.. but the kit is designed for only 20


Not really sure what you mean there?? Not being a smart ass, just wondering, so you are saying that the SMC kit is sold by Steve as a 20 lbs of boost kit only and no more?? That it is maxed out there??? If so I must be the exception, because I am running 23Lbs of boost w/94 octane, Jay Carter race chip, with 0.0 degree knock. This is with a single nozzle setup. As far as my previous post, I was just trying to let people know how to easily make a true dual stage alchy kit if they needed it. Just a side note for what it's worth, I belong to three boat forums, a snowmobile forum, another turbo buick forum, and a NFL forum, and I have never seen such bickering and hate on any other forum... It's just strange, I thought we were all on the same team. Just an observation, not trying to start trouble. Really.

 

[SMC]

SMC response

Many people are running over 20 psi with the kit, I just try to be conservative in my estimates to keep people happy. If they end up at 22-23- then they're extra pleased. Most TRs don't need to have the spray come on till 12-13 psi. If you are fighting some transitional knock, the progressive controller will work better- since we can start to spray as low as 7-8 psi, and then ramp up to as high as 100 psi with the newer pumps. I generally ignore 3-4 degrees of retard....tuning for 0 knock is not very realistic. I really, really tried to blow a head gasket in the 5 years spent testing & tuning with alcohol, but my 97,000 mile original gaskets are still in place.

 

[BLACK6PACK]

I'm running 24 lbs of boost, and 23* of timing on my Max Effort. I run on the race settings all the time. Last time out with the car I didn't get a single frame of knock. This is a dual nozzle system with both nozzles being the larger size. Pump speed is set at a little over 9 and turn on right around 12lbs. I've been running the SMC kit for over 3 years. Couldn't be happier. Only problem I have is the the nittos are screaming for mercy all the way up to 50 mph.

 

[Red Regal T]

Originally posted by WE4TurboT
Just a side note for what it's worth, I belong to three boat forums, a snowmobile forum, another turbo buick forum, and a NFL forum, and I have never seen such bickering and hate on any other forum... It's just strange, I thought we were all on the same team. Just an observation, not trying to start trouble. Really.

YOU JUST LOGGED ON AT A GOOD TIME.

 

[salvageV6]

In response to staging the kit and running full power just have the second hobbs switch or 20psi. activation signal trigger a solenoid for the second stage. And have it trigger a relay at this time to do as follows:

In order to get full pump speed at this time you could lift either one or two of the SMC controller lines off the pump and substitute a nice local hot wired battery voltage 10 gauge wire to the pump direct.

I doubt the delay in nanoseconds for the relay to kick on would be noticed.

You would use a DPDT relay for this. Need both normally closed and normally open contacts.

I use pump speed of 10 on both stages anyway so I have never tried the hot wire trick.

Probably void the warrranty on the thing but let's just say it can be done rather easily with a double pole 20-30 amp. relay.

Adds some complexity to the thing for sure but I would do it if I had to run the pump at 5 for some reason on the first stage.

 

[Razor]

Originally posted by WE4TurboT
Set the Hobbs to 20.. but the kit is designed for only 20


Not really sure what you mean there?? Not being a smart ass, just wondering, so you are saying that the SMC kit is sold by Steve as a 20 lbs of boost kit only and no more?? That it is maxed out there??? If so I must be the exception, because I am running 23Lbs of boost w/94 octane, Jay Carter race chip, with 0.0 degree knock. This is with a single nozzle setup. As far as my previous post, I was just trying to let people know how to easily make a true dual stage alchy kit if they needed it. Just a side note for what it's worth, I belong to three boat forums, a snowmobile forum, another turbo buick forum, and a NFL forum, and I have never seen such bickering and hate on any other forum... It's just strange, I thought we were all on the same team. Just an observation, not trying to start trouble. Really.

Jeff, here a copy and paste from another thread labeled just like this one..
"quote"
13. The system is designed to allow the average TR to reach 20 psi. Some people report getting as high as 24-25 psi , but this is the exception rather than the norm. I try to be very realistic about gains....if you do better than 20 psi .....it's all good

I only respond to with claims straight from the vendor...I didnt make this up..

jsta6 complains he has transitional knock using the SMC kit whereas he has to lower his turnon to 6 PSI to curb the transitional monster. He asks why..I simply respond with facts.

So whats the pressure limit on that new SMC progressive controller? How low can it be turned on boost wise..whats the pressure output when it turns on..can that be adjusted.. And it goes to a 100 PSI on what nozzles? At what boost level?

And since it can be turned on at a lower boost level..what happens when your at the track building boost and the alcohol comes on?

Just asking minute questions..

 

[Razor]

Originally posted by salvageV6

In order to get full pump speed at this time you could lift either one or two of the SMC controller lines off the pump and substitute a nice local hot wired battery voltage 10 gauge wire to the pump direct.

Now thats like wizzing into a fan..the SMC controller applies 12 volts straight to the pump..so you replacing the 12 volts already there is like

Now .. if your talking about applying a ground..since it already has 12 volts on it..then you may have something...gotta understand..the controller applies ground to make the motor spin in laymans terms.

Another thing you could do is wire the controller's red B+ cable straight to the back of the alternator..this would give you an additional volt or so..but dont know if that may be detrimental to the controller with noise on its power cable.

All said and done..you go through all this trouble becuase you have exceed the kits ability.. better look at another setup else risk burning up the controller and pump.

The SMC kit is a wonderful kit as it is intended to be used..But..
This is not the little train that thought it could

Been there and dun that

 

[salvageV6]

Just reread the post and quit whizzing yourself.

Lift both wires from the controller for simplicity and hot wire the pump.

Full on to what ever voltage you want to use from whatever source.

A $20 relay and no progressive controller needed.

We want to keep this DIY upgrade simple right.

In laymans terms of course....

 

[Razor]

quit whizzing yourself

hehe.. I always hate when that happens

Minimal returns on a pump that cant flow enough to get you to 25 plus land. Plus if your controller dont put out enough on pump speed 10.. time to get it checked

You also havent addressed the issue when you lift the load off of that FET thats driving the pump..and all of a sudden reconnect it..the surge sent through your relay will shock the circuit..

Heres an experiment,
try this..play your home reciever really loud and while its thumping..unplug the speakers and reconnect them..do this a few times and tell me what happens And this is just a simple audio circuit.. And with pulse width modulation while its drawing heavy current..your in a heap of trouble. Like pushing a car then someone puts a banana peel under your shoe

Can only go to well a limited amount of times with that one.. but what do I know

 

[salvageV6]

I have quality McIntosh home amplifiers, they can operate into most any load at all. Can even drive inductive loads such as electric drills with no problems.

Perhaps they are the Shurflo of amplifiers, without the warning sticker however.

Okay back to the relay.

Lifting the SMC controller on a setting of 5 or so, may or may not be a good idea, first contact Steve, doubt it will spike but a simple substitute load circuit, a resistor or snubber diode would be under a dollar to add IF necessary.

Hot wiring the pump for stage 2 is easy we all know how to do that.

Not even worth trying for my cars as I run the pump on 10 in both.

Most people who have problems would do better to get their cars to spool instantly with no lag from 0 to 25psi. and leave the pump spraying as fast and as much as possible. My .02 there.

The shurflo may need the progressive type controller due to the high output I will be finding that out soon, but most who run high boost with the SMC, I believe, use a pump speed of 10 anyway and do well.

 

[SMC]

2 Stage SMC?

Hey Guys-

Salvage does have a valid idea on a simple 2-stage setup. I'd need to do some testing to check for any possibility of damage to the controller from the relay coming on & off. The prototype 2 stage kits I made in the past had adjustable pump speed on both stages....... but it is so much simpler and makes more sense to have a true progressive controller. You guys need to understand that SMC is beginning to go after the supercharger & import tuner market- and these guys either need or want the high tech features (progressive) and have no problem shelling out alot more than I charge......... But I have alot of respect for the DIY'r....that's how I started this 5 years ago!!

(As for Razors valid questions...

Either controller is capable of over 100 psi spray pressure with the newest pump and #15 nozzle. This is with 11.5 volts driving the pump through the controller. With 13.8 volts the pressure rises to around 115 psi.

jsta6 has his kit in for a pump upgrade that may well cure his transitional knock problem. His kit is old enough to not have the pressure guage, so I don't know how much pressure his pump was pushing.

The progressive controller will not in itself increase the amount of boost you can run...it simply allows you to have the spray start earlier w/o bogging the motor...eliminating transitional knock. It also will "pre-prime" the system so to speak.

At the "low" setting on the "spray on point" dial it will begin to spray(20 psi) at approx 7 psi. "medium" will start at approx 10 psi, and "high" won't start till 14-15 psi. (This is with the pump speed on MAX) As boost increases the pump speed increases to the level you have set on the "pump speed" dial.

As for "at the track" staging.........I'd simply turn up the "spray on" point to medium- and the kit won't begin spraying until 10 psi. If you launch at higher than 10# boost, just turn the dial a bit more. That's why I like the in car controller......

 

[jsta6]

For those that miay have the problem of a low spray setting and leaving with high boost (the spray comes on at 10lbs of boost, and you leave the line at 10lbs of boost), why not just add a toggle switch to kill the pump/controller, or wire it in to the brake light switch?

 

[Razor]

Originally posted by salvageV6

Not even worth trying for my cars as I run the pump on 10 in both.

Most people who have problems would do better to get their cars to spool instantly with no lag from 0 to 25psi. and leave the pump spraying as fast and as much as possible. My .02 there.

The shurflo may need the progressive type controller due to the high output I will be finding that out soon, but most who run high boost with the SMC, I believe, use a pump speed of 10 anyway and do well.

SalvageV6, MAC is great stuff..but they dont like losing their load under WOT..worst case is goes into protect..and there are protection circuits built in to do just this incorporated into amplifiers. But this is another subject for a totally different forum.

What happens when pump speed 10 is no longer enough? lets say you make some more HP and need a little more alky.. dont ask why I ask this You then do the typical progression and install another line to increase volume. Hopefully I make some sense this far.

Now you do this extra line which delivers additional alky..what happens when the car hits it spray on point? you flood the motor for the time it takes it to work its way up to the boost level you have it set at. yeah it doesnt knock at 26 PSI..but you have hampered the spoolup and surge you would typically get if less was applied. Just a little less makes a big difference.

This mumbo jumbo i'm writing is the result of extensive testing done at a drag strip.. not on an open country road. Becuase it works doesnt mean it works to its full potential. We all get too carried away with it runs 35 PSI on alky..the real question is how well it does?

As someone else wrote..tune tune tune.. if your cars run great at pump speed 10 and your happy, no one else in the world is going to take your candy away.

Wonder why GN's on alky run better MPH for et's than GN's on race gas... How many low 11 sec GN's only running 112-114 mph vs mid to high 11 sec GN's running 114-117.. look at 330 foots on alky.

Peace.

 

[bishir]

Wow, a great discussion without anyone getting pissed at one another. 5 Stars! Sometimes I really like this site.