At Home Performance Suggestions

[turbojoe1]

Hi all, just getting into this as I am buying my 1st TB "finally".
I'm looking at dropping even more weight from the We4.
With all the chassis stiffening and rear suspention tricks of course.

So I would like to compile a motor mod list I can do in the garage
With out overkill. Shooting for 11.0s on drag radials, no cage or and race looking parts.
The car already has a TA-49, 3"DP, 55lbs, 92 chip, and a 2600 tc.

Here's what I'm thinking
Show and Go, drive to the track.

93 TT chip.
Billet pulley set with Ac/delet
A hot wired 340
Comp 980's, with 1.65 RR's, solid shaft?
Head studs with bullet proof gaskets, maybe bump up the comp?
Lt1 maf with Translator pro. Before or after turbo?
Big mouth Cold air intake
Dutt intercooler
62mm TB and dog house, with power plate
Free flowing 3" duals, no cat?
Larger AL radiator, w/160* ts, relay and fans.
Scan Master
Good ignition
Shift kit
Egr delet and reroute pcv
Engine strap and Polly MM's?
Port match everything?
Oil and trany coolers w/ all nessasary gauges

Am I missing anything/overkill?
Suggestions welcome please and thank you

Joe

 

[TexasT]

My first thought is why delete a/c? Don't know your location but it is a Buick and A/c is a prerequisite for summer cruising in Texas.

Is this a running car? If so I wouldn't be pulling heads unless I got a bad leak down or compression check.

Just what popped into my head when I read your plans.

Alky kit, sticky tires, scanmaster or some form of knock monitoring, boost gauge. Hot wire to and a good fuel pump with a fresh filter. Pressure gauge to set fuel pressure and adjust as needed.

 

[HouTX87]

I'd keep the a/c. I wouldn't pull the heads either. For roller rockers I think you'd need taller valve covers or spacers = Probably not worth the money with stock heads and cam. The poly mounts are really nice. I had new stock mounts and my downpipe kept banging the frame. Alky control = best mod ever for a street car! Your combo isn't too much different than mine. My car looks stock under the hood to the untrained eye except for the alky line going to the up pipe. The alradco radiator and fans are expensive but well worth it, temps dropped from 200's to 160's. Gauges, scanmaster etc. can add up too. Ditch the cat and get a good catback and cold air setup. Be patient and make sure the car is right before you crank up the boost. Can't run much boost on straight pump gas. I'd also add an rjc power plate, boost controller and caspers knock alarm to your list. Larger throttle body could be overkill but I could be wrong.

 

[turbojoe1]

Thanks for the replays, the reason for deleting the AC has many advantages to me. I'd like to clean up the clutter under the hood, as well as make it a little easer to wrench on while dropping a couple lbs off the front of the car. The idea of an Alky Control kit is really growing on me, and seem very well worth the money. The motor is on the engine stand right now, so I'm ready to tear into it. As for the heads, I tend to always do the little extras. Installing the better head gaskets and studs now is nothing but insurance to me. I don't plan on porting anything as I don't wont to lose pressure, and get everything I can out of the little 49. Just some clean up work, port matching and blending. The small stock cam is fine. Not a big fan of flat tappers, but I feel a lager cam here would be overkill. While the heads are off, why not upgrade everything else valve train related tho. Like all the oil flow back holes, and the rocker components. I don't want another noisy valve train, like my truck, but there are other advantages a good roller rocker system can give. Keeping this thing cool is one of my top priorities.

Thanks for the advice, lets keep this going. Joe

 

[SS/GN]

Joe
Don't be offended but the roller rockers,bumping the compresion and a few other things are old school hot rodding. These cars respond better to other mods.The dropping of weight is also old school,many 9 second cars with a/c and cruise control.When I bought my first T/R an old guy said " forget all the traditional muscle car ideas ,this is a Buick" These cars go 11 s and look basically stock and that is what seperates them from other makes. My recommendation is stay on the board,read and ask lots of questions.Just my opinion.Welcome to the board

 

[earlbrown]

A plain old 3rd gen camaro radiator will meet your goals for cooling. MAF before the turbo as that is what most chip makers expect to see. If you're worried about pressure drop get a 3.5" MAF and a bigger filter. The stock ignition system is plenty hot. Why do you want to reroute the PCV? All cars need an external tranny cooler. If you're worried about weight, I'd get the single 3" as it's going to weigh close to half as much and flow plenty.

If you just absolutely have to take the heads off to 'upgrade' the seal, do a search..... There are buttloads of threads centered around people that blow new head gaskets left and right. (if the engine has good leakdown numbers, I'd leave it alone)

If all you want is high 11's on stickies, you don't have to go through a bunch of heroics. Keep it simple, clean, and tune for no knock.

 

[turbojoe1]

Joe
Don't be offended but the roller rockers,bumping the compresion and a few other things are old school hot rodding. These cars respond better to other mods.The dropping of weight is also old school,many 9 second cars with a/c and cruise control.When I bought my first T/R an old guy said " forget all the traditional muscle car ideas ,this is a Buick" These cars go 11 s and look basically stock and that is what seperates them from other makes. My recommendation is stay on the board,read and ask lots of questions.Just my opinion.Welcome to the board

Thanks, not offended. I know what you mean. I'm a sbc guy and I know all the little things ad up. "Most of the time". I know there are a few things that need updated, but I am a little surprised with all the tech in these little 231's and how they respond to today's electronic's. But this is really different and cool. I will put plenty of money towards the right diagnostic, logging equipment and gauges.

 

[turbojoe1]

A plain old 3rd gen camaro radiator will meet your goals for cooling. MAF before the turbo as that is what most chip makers expect to see. If you're worried about pressure drop get a 3.5" MAF and a bigger filter. The stock ignition system is plenty hot. Why do you want to reroute the PCV? All cars need an external tranny cooler. If you're worried about weight, I'd get the single 3" as it's going to weigh close to half as much and flow plenty.

If you just absolutely have to take the heads off to 'upgrade' the seal, do a search..... There are buttloads of threads centered around people that blow new head gaskets left and right. (if the engine has good leakdown numbers, I'd leave it alone)

If all you want is high 11's on stickies, you don't have to go through a bunch of heroics. Keep it simple, clean, and tune for no knock.

I will take ur advice and save of few dollar while I'm at it. Although its only the front end I'm looking to drop weight from. I'd like to low 11's with MT's. I only worried about the 1st 330' ft. And by that I want good weight transfer, along with the suspension and chassis stiffening mods. Sub 1.60 60's on drag radials should make me happy. As for the intake pluming, the inlet bell don't look the big, would I benefit from a 3.5" plus piping from the filter. I like the idea if the 3" cross flow look muffler by rjc.

Thanxs

 

[earlbrown]

The inlet bell isn't that big. The 3.5"MAF had a center airfoil in it that lowers the cross section down. Honestly, there probably won't be a difference between the two with what you're building. Upgrading from a 3 to a 3.5 isn't worth it most of the time since the filters are so expensive.... BUT if you're building one from scratch it's not any harder to use the bigger unit and just buy once.

These cars do respond to bumping up the compression. I like at least 9:1 on the street. It helps with spool time, bottom end and gas mileage (some people refer to it as 'volumetric efficiency' ) It's also great to help cover up cams that are too damn big.

 

[turbojoe1]

You have my attention

 

[we4Mateo]

Hi all, just getting into this as I am buying my 1st TB "finally".
I'm looking at dropping even more weight from the We4.
With all the chassis stiffening and rear suspention tricks of course.

So I would like to compile a motor mod list I can do in the garage
With out overkill. Shooting for 11.0s on drag radials, no cage or and race looking parts.
The car already has a TA-49, 3"DP, 55lbs, 92 chip, and a 2600 tc.

Here's what I'm thinking
Show and Go, drive to the track.

93 TT chip.
Billet pulley set with Ac/delet
A hot wired 340
Comp 980's, with 1.65 RR's, solid shaft?
Head studs with bullet proof gaskets, maybe bump up the comp?
Lt1 maf with Translator pro. Before or after turbo?
Big mouth Cold air intake
Dutt intercooler
62mm TB and dog house, with power plate
Free flowing 3" duals, no cat?
Larger AL radiator, w/160* ts, relay and fans.
Scan Master
Good ignition
Shift kit
Egr delet and reroute pcv
Engine strap and Polly MM's?
Port match everything?
Oil and trany coolers w/ all nessasary gauges

Am I missing anything/overkill?
Suggestions welcome please and thank you

Joe

Billet pulleys look a little racy...other than that, you don't need many of the things above to run low 11's.

Scanmaster, good system voltage, alky kit, and a hotwired fuel pump with what you have will get you there with the TT chip you are looking at. Check out the Bailey chips at Full Throttle as well. Since you are running a translator, you'll get the most out of your MAF by running that instead.

As mentioned, don't change head gaskets until you need to. The factory torques down all the bolts at once, and if the factory gaskets are sealing well, they will for a long time yet with a no knock tune. You'll probably get plenty of chances to change headgaskets when you start racing a lot. Also, bullet proof headgaskets mean that the force of any mishap gets transferred to your bottom end instead of blowing out the headgasket like a fuse. I even recommend factory gaskets for your goals.

The valve train will be quieter with stock rockers and a FT cam than any roller set up I've ever heard in person yet.

Poly motor mounts are enough; save the ear on your alternator and avoid the torque strap. It's a pretty old school technique that was needed before poly motor mounts.

...As for the heads, I tend to always do the little extras. Installing the better head gaskets and studs now is nothing but insurance to me. I don't plan on porting anything as I don't wont to lose pressure, and get everything I can out of the little 49. Just some clean up work, port matching and blending. The small stock cam is fine. Not a big fan of flat tappers, but I feel a lager cam here would be overkill. While the heads are off, why not upgrade everything else valve train related tho. Like all the oil flow back holes, and the rocker components. I don't want another noisy valve train, like my truck, but there are other advantages a good roller rocker system can give. Keeping this thing cool is one of my top priorities.

Thanks for the advice, lets keep this going. Joe

Lots of good ideas here and 8445 heads (stock castings) don't need a lot of work to flow well. Doing a few little things will enable the 49 to flow more air at a lower boost level. Basically the idea is this, your TA49, or any turbo for that matter, is capable of flowing a certain amount of air under any circumstance. If your motor has good flowing heads, the right cam, 9:1 compression etc, then your 49 will run out of steam at, hypothetically, 18psi. On a stock engine with stock heads/cam/etc, than that same turbo can make over 30psi, hypothetically but well known, but still make the same power as it's flowing the same amount of air at eiter boost level on the two different engines. Don't look at boost as power, but rather a measure of your engine's restrictiveness.

I helped a guy tune his alky kit he bought from me and he had a stroker motor with good iron heads and a roller cam. All he had was a stock turbo and it wouldn't boost over 15psi b/c his motor was eating all that little turbo could give it. Now put a 70mm turbo on that engine, and at the same boost level, it'd fly b/c the larger turbo is properly supplying air to the motor. The larger turbo would also be capable of producing larger boost numbers on this engine b/c it's capable of flowing more air than the engine can take thus creating more boost, or rather a higher resistance to flow. Conversely, put a 70mm turbo on a stock engine, and you'll never get it into its efficiency range. Basically, keep your turbo, but do port the heads, just a little at least, and make it easier to get all that it's worth out of it. But only do this if you MUST pull the heads. If you leave them on, then just port match the intake and you'll be surprised what that gets you.

See my sig, but I run close to 30psi to get my times that I get with my te44. I also have to nearly tie my wastegate closed to get those boost numbers. I'm probably running 70-90psi on the exhaust side to push a TE44 that hard. My new engine will make more power at 20psi than my current one does at 30psi as motor will be 9:1 with good heads/cam and a larger turbo still ; make sense?

I ran 11.34 at the nats in Bowling Green and I drove there 600 miles each way, with cold a/c, left my front swaybar attached, and was still able to get 1.5x 60' times off my vacuum foot brake launches.

Keep us posted and welcome to the dark side!

 

[GNRick]

How about cutting the little neck off the fuel sending unit and indexing the spark plugs? How about a volt booster?

 

[turbojoe1]

Billet pulleys look a little racy...other than that, you don't need many of the things above to run low 11's.

Scanmaster, good system voltage, alky kit, and a hotwired fuel pump with what you have will get you there with the TT chip you are looking at. Check out the Bailey chips at Full Throttle as well. Since you are running a translator, you'll get the most out of your MAF by running that instead.

As mentioned, don't change head gaskets until you need to. The factory torques down all the bolts at once, and if the factory gaskets are sealing well, they will for a long time yet with a no knock tune. You'll probably get plenty of chances to change headgaskets when you start racing a lot. Also, bullet proof headgaskets mean that the force of any mishap gets transferred to your bottom end instead of blowing out the headgasket like a fuse. I even recommend factory gaskets for your goals.

The valve train will be quieter with stock rockers and a FT cam than any roller set up I've ever heard in person yet.

Poly motor mounts are enough; save the ear on your alternator and avoid the torque strap. It's a pretty old school technique that was needed before poly motor mounts.

Lots of good ideas here and 8445 heads (stock castings) don't need a lot of work to flow well. Doing a few little things will enable the 49 to flow more air at a lower boost level. Basically the idea is this, your TA49, or any turbo for that matter, is capable of flowing a certain amount of air under any circumstance. If your motor has good flowing heads, the right cam, 9:1 compression etc, then your 49 will run out of steam at, hypothetically, 18psi. On a stock engine with stock heads/cam/etc, than that same turbo can make over 30psi, hypothetically but well known, but still make the same power as it's flowing the same amount of air at eiter boost level on the two different engines. Don't look at boost as power, but rather a measure of your engine's restrictiveness.

I helped a guy tune his alky kit he bought from me and he had a stroker motor with good iron heads and a roller cam. All he had was a stock turbo and it wouldn't boost over 15psi b/c his motor was eating all that little turbo could give it. Now put a 70mm turbo on that engine, and at the same boost level, it'd fly b/c the larger turbo is properly supplying air to the motor. The larger turbo would also be capable of producing larger boost numbers on this engine b/c it's capable of flowing more air than the engine can take thus creating more boost, or rather a higher resistance to flow. Conversely, put a 70mm turbo on a stock engine, and you'll never get it into its efficiency range. Basically, keep your turbo, but do port the heads, just a little at least, and make it easier to get all that it's worth out of it. But only do this if you MUST pull the heads. If you leave them on, then just port match the intake and you'll be surprised what that gets you.

See my sig, but I run close to 30psi to get my times that I get with my te44. I also have to nearly tie my wastegate closed to get those boost numbers. I'm probably running 70-90psi on the exhaust side to push a TE44 that hard. My new engine will make more power at 20psi than my current one does at 30psi as motor will be 9:1 with good heads/cam and a larger turbo still ; make sense?

I ran 11.34 at the nats in Bowling Green and I drove there 600 miles each way, with cold a/c, left my front swaybar attached, and was still able to get 1.5x 60' times off my vacuum foot brake launches.

Keep us posted and welcome to the dark side!

Wow, thank you so much for all your insight.
This is exactly the information I was hoping for in my op. this sounds like its gonna be a whole lot of fun. So basically this current motor has 10 thou miles on it. The heads are gonna come off, I gotta know what's already done, or not done. This FT cam you speak of, stock upgrade? Obviously there are some things that don't need touched, and others that can benefit to modern upgrades.

Keeping The AC along with a remote start might help keep the ole lady happy.

Anything I missed? How about tranny upgrades?

Appreciate it, Joe

 

[turbojoe1]

How about cutting the little neck off the fuel sending unit and indexing the spark plugs? How about a volt booster?

Indexed at .035. Indexed @.045 in the truck, and thinking about it for my women's jeep, lol.
I don't mind doing the little things.

I'm not sure what you mean about the send unit.
Could you explain?

 

[Phoneguy]

Sorry , server hicup

 

[Phoneguy]

Server is not playing nice today

 

[GNRick]

Best to watch this video:

As for the sending unit, if you take it out of the gas tank you will see a necked down part that the hose slips over. This reduces fuel flow. How much I don't know, but Racetronix sells a sending unit where this part is not necked down, so maybe it makes a difference (or maybe Jack just wants to sell more sending units). Anyway it's free if you have a hack saw. Also you could save weight by going with a fiberglass hood, trunk lid, and bumpers. Also a mini starter is lighter.

 

[Crazi]

If it was my car, I'd:
1. tune it up
2. do a spring cleaning
3. put a modern chip in for what you already have in it
4. get an alky control kit
5. throw the drag radials on it and run it and see what times you run.

You might be able to get close with what you already have. Then at least you have a starting point so when you add stuff on your list, you know whether its helping or hurting.

 

[turbojoe1]

Best to watch this video: YouTube Video As for the sending unit, if you take it out of the gas tank you will see a necked down part that the hose slips over. This reduces fuel flow. How much I don't know, but Racetronix sells a sending unit where this part is not necked down, so maybe it makes a difference (or maybe Jack just wants to sell more sending units). Anyway it's free if you have a hack saw. Also you could save weight by going with a fiberglass hood, trunk lid, and bumpers. Also a mini starter is lighter.

Thanks for the advice about the sending unit.
I was planing on the Glass parts for the front and the mini starter, are the stock bumper brackets Aluminum?

 

[GNRick]

I did a quick search and came up with this....http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/threads/aluminum.316238/#post-2474424