At the track this weekend

[rssooner]

I have the following on my car:

TE60, 50lb inj. 3200 n/l, SMC alky. with Turbo Tweak chip (22 degrees timing) and all the other basic bolt on's.

I went to the track this weekend and at WOT (5150 RPM) my turbo link showed the following:

O degrees retard, O2's 773mv, volts 13.0 TPS 4.16V

Eric Marshall has a 43lb fuel pressure baseline on his chip but I had my car at 50lbs vacuum off.

I ran a 12.26 @ 110 with a 1.84 60ft.

I am scratching my head about why I was needing to be at 50lb of fuel pressure with my o2's at 773.

I am a novice tuner especially with alky. Can anyone give me some input on this? I think there is some fuel delivery issues.

Thanks in advance for the help.

 

[The Darkside]

At what boost level is your alky set to come on at? What pump speed are you set at?
Also, your wot tps needs to be above 4.50, 4.16 is too low.


The Darkside

 

[rssooner]

Thanks for the reply.

My alky has the progressive controller and it was set up to start at around 7-8 psi of boost and max out at around 17-18 psi of boost. To be honest with you, I am not sure the pump speed. I think the nozzle is a size 15.

How does a low tps at wot affect the car? How do I increase it?

Thanks for the input and help.

 

[Eric Stage I]

How much boost were you running Rob?

Also, sometimes the O2 reading can be misleading. If you had no knock, sounds like it was doing ok. Sometimes you just have to experiment with fuel and boost to see what the car likes.

As long as the TPS is over 4.00 at WOT, you'll be ok. However, it's nice to bump it up around 4.40-4.50 for safety.

Eric

 

[rssooner]

Eric,

I was running about 21-22 psi of boost. I went up to 24psi but then the rain started before I could make another pass. I guess what I am scratching my head about is the 50lbs of fuel pressure with the o2 being what they were. But you are right, no know what so ever.

Any thoughts?

Thanks

 

[Razor]

First,
post your complete time slip. Showing end result does nothing. Showing the numbers as the car goes down the track paints a better picture.

Second,
Set your TPS for 4.5 min as Eric said. Pull the TPS sensor torwards the radiator.. yank it torwards the radiator.. and you'll see it will go over 4.5/

Third,
why would you set your maximum at at 17-18 PSI when obviously your running more boost? Wouldnt it make more sense to set your maximum at 25 PSI in case the motor spiked(overboosted)? But I dont know the ins/outs of Steve's new controller.

Fourth,
Erics chip should deliver enough fuel at 43 PSI assumming everything else is working correctly. Not to say your O2 readings may be off.. but an EGT would confirm them.

 

[rssooner]

Razor,

Thanks for the reply.

Here are all of the numbers from the run:

60' 1.84
330' 5.10
1/8 7.87 @88.53
1000' none
1/4 12.26 @ 110.42

I am pretty ignorant to the alky world so I thought that if I set the "MAX" setting of alky to come on earlier (18psi of boost) then I would have more alky throughout the run and it would be safer. Please advise if I am way off on this b/c like I mentioned, I am very new to alky and how to tune the car.

Thanks again for your input.

 

[Razor]

Car is picking up 22 from the 1/8 to the 1/4. This probably means its either leaning out a little, too rich, or tired(springs,compression)

Work on getting the back half of the track to increase to 24-26.

Your max should be the most the system should put out.. at X psi no? What if it overboosted? So you never want to see max output.. at least the way I look at things.

Not bad you ran that. Car needs better tires, maybe a little more timing.. keep working on it.

 

[rssooner]

Razor,

Thanks for the support.

I replaced the valve springs a couple of years ago and only have about 500 miles on them. I am thinking it is running rich. The 60' was on about 5 psi of boost so you are right..that must get better.

I guess these things take time.

Thanks again.

 

[Razor]

Originally posted by rssooner

I guess these things take time.

True'r words havent been spoken in a while..

Seat time.. thats the fun part.. then seeing what makes what increase power.

Keep playing..

 

[Mark Brokaw]

not to hijack the thread,Razor you say you should pick up 24 to 26 mphs from 1/8 to 1/4.Looked at all my time slips from last year and they all averaged about 20 mph from 1/8 to 1/4.
Also it didn't seem to matter what i did to the car it would run the same (AROUND 12.70 TO 12.60 at 109mph.)street slicks,boosts it wouldn;t matter.Like it hit a brick wall.
Combo.

Te-44,xp fuel pump(HW),THDP,009's,reds 109 or 98(same time)
20 psi,43 pounds of fuel.

sorry for the hijack.

 

[XLR8]

Originally posted by rssooner

O degrees retard, O2's 773mv, volts 13.0 TPS 4.16V

Volts seem a little low and fuel pump delivery is dependant on voltage. Your pump is hot-wired right?

 

[pacecarta]

Try adding fuel with the chip , raising pressure doesnt do much for the fuel volume .

im was (am still) having similar issue with the 50s
short story made long
i had tuned the motor in the fall on 30# inj ,alky, stock i/c and DP all the basic upgrades and O2 s were fine . Time to step up the power , the trans was rebuilt and a 2800 stall converter added , 49 turbo , 50 injectors and had chip new TT burned for the 50s anticipating flow of soon to be installed 3" DP, dutt neck and the 2800 converter
from the go o2 were always low but no kr so i figured my o2 reading was off , and my blms were low at idle so more base fuel didnt seem to be the answer
so i tried the translator /lt1 and set it lean idle blms are better but 02s still low at wot
Then i replaced the stock DP and elbo for a mease 3" TH style dp and had no issues, boost was still at 25 and all was good no KR though o2s were low(mid 600s- 700s ) so i installed an egt to find out and egts were 1580-1600 so it may have been a little lean but wast any kr at 25 psi
then I threw on a dutt neck and a new denso O2 sensor , so i figured id turn down the boost a turn or two for the neck , and take a run
well now i have boost is going 27+psi and some kr at the top, , no chance of putting the pedal to the floor without major overboosting , fuel gauge shows about 64 lbs fp (from a base of 38 ) and egts in around 1590s so fuel was there.
so i stop and try turn out some more boost with the rjc boost controll , no such luck boost still high , so i pulled off and hooked back to stock setup and not much change there either boost still going high 27psi and coming up really fast , so in tried more alky at the knob now i'm maxed and still getting low 02 and some kr so i try adding more FPressure 3-4 lbs , no good either o2s low and some kr and egts in the 1580s

so unable to get the boost down to try to see if that would richen things up I come to the conclusion i need to port the WG hole . puck was 1.45 , hole was .84 now its 1.04 and i can now run lower boost down to about 15-17 and finally get the pedal to the floor but o2s were still low , so i decide to check for air leaks and i find theres a new crack in the driver header . thought that was it , fixed it and cranked in a little more boost and made a run at 20psi and o2s were still low but no KR .
finally i tried the chip programming and threw in +10% WOT fuel
, WOW! now im back in the 820s and settled to 780s and all seems fine. car spools a little slower but it sounds so much better and egts are now 1480s-1500s, now i am able to turn my alky knob is back to the 11:30 position .
now if it would just stop snowing so i could get some clean pulls and some data recorded on the direcscan and see where im at up at 25 PSI . Then I'll to have eric throw more fuel in the next burn . i may find i need more than 10%

really wondering now if these flow matched 50s i got are really flowing at 50 lb .

 

[rssooner]

XLR 8

Yes, my fuel pump is hotwired.

 

[Razor]

Originally posted by Mark Brokaw
Like it hit a brick wall.

Mark,
This is the tuing issue that has to get worked on. And where paying attention to your mods and theyre performance play a major role in how fast you can go.

I chased a "brick wall" condition a few years ago for three months.. ended up being a transmission issue. But you have to have a baseline and work from there.

So if the car picks up 20 from the 1/8-1/4..work on getting that to 21-22.. and so forth. Locking the converter, timing, fueling, boost.. all play a role.

I had a buddy's car that would only get 20 pickup.. ended up being his boost would drop off..

No clear cut answer why... but it just lets you know to keep an eye out on it.

If you dont go to the track but once a year.. you'll never figure it out. So have some fun with the car.. and learn to read what it tells you.

HTH

 

[Razor]

Originally posted by pacecarta
Try adding fuel with the chip , raising pressure doesnt do much for the fuel volume .

im was (am still) having similar issue with the 50s
short story made long
i had tuned the motor in the fall on 30# inj ,alky, stock i/c and DP all the basic upgrades and O2 s were fine . Time to step up the power , the trans was rebuilt and a 2800 stall converter added , 49 turbo , 50 injectors and had chip new TT burned for the 50s anticipating flow of soon to be installed 3" DP, dutt neck and the 2800 converter
from the go o2 were always low but no kr so i figured my o2 reading was off , and my blms were low at idle so more base fuel didnt seem to be the answer
so i tried the translator /lt1 and set it lean idle blms are better but 02s still low at wot
Then i replaced the stock DP and elbo for a mease 3" TH style dp and had no issues, boost was still at 25 and all was good no KR though o2s were low(mid 600s- 700s ) so i installed an egt to find out and egts were 1580-1600 so it may have been a little lean but wast any kr at 25 psi
then I threw on a dutt neck and a new denso O2 sensor , so i figured id turn down the boost a turn or two for the neck , and take a run
well now i have boost is going 27+psi and some kr at the top, , no chance of putting the pedal to the floor without major overboosting , fuel gauge shows about 64 lbs fp (from a base of 38 ) and egts in around 1590s so fuel was there.
so i stop and try turn out some more boost with the rjc boost controll , no such luck boost still high , so i pulled off and hooked back to stock setup and not much change there either boost still going high 27psi and coming up really fast , so in tried more alky at the knob now i'm maxed and still getting low 02 and some kr so i try adding more FPressure 3-4 lbs , no good either o2s low and some kr and egts in the 1580s

so unable to get the boost down to try to see if that would richen things up I come to the conclusion i need to port the WG hole . puck was 1.45 , hole was .84 now its 1.04 and i can now run lower boost down to about 15-17 and finally get the pedal to the floor but o2s were still low , so i decide to check for air leaks and i find theres a new crack in the driver header . thought that was it , fixed it and cranked in a little more boost and made a run at 20psi and o2s were still low but no KR .
finally i tried the chip programming and threw in +10% WOT fuel
, WOW! now im back in the 820s and settled to 780s and all seems fine. car spools a little slower but it sounds so much better and egts are now 1480s-1500s, now i am able to turn my alky knob is back to the 11:30 position .
now if it would just stop snowing so i could get some clean pulls and some data recorded on the direcscan and see where im at up at 25 PSI . Then I'll to have eric throw more fuel in the next burn . i may find i need more than 10%

really wondering now if these flow matched 50s i got are really flowing at 50 lb .

Great post... see how a process of elimination yields results.

27 PSI.. hehe

Gonna have to step up the volume

 

[rssooner]

I do have a related question that was on a post within this subject and that is...what is the advantage of locking up the converter? I have heard it's harder on the converter to lock it up. I have a non-lock up converter so I am somewhat confused on this particular issue. Can someone please clarify?

Thanks