Atomization of Methanol Theory

[Alky V6]

With a dual system, I would do several tests and measurements to see how consistent the standard Alky DP
is. If they are close enough then add the block,pipe and
jets. Retest for uniformity out of each from there.
If it is not consistant,repump. Or go to phase2 of the plan.

And we need no more meth than what the better systems are currently supplying. But as long as it is purged and the pump works you will have Alky where it is supposed to be in the correct amounts.

One pump would make it easier.

In a side by side system, I'd worry about the pump volumes remaining constant over a long period of time. Months.

 

[karolko]

rmar, no problem, ask away eventually all of our verbal diarehea will turn into gold... eventually.

 

[GNVYUS 1]

Julio has a link that shows an inlet temp in the mid 50's, I would say his methods are getting the job done. DonWG answered why turbulence concerning alky injection is a good thing and why side to side nozzles wouldn't be a problem, but if you are concerned on your twin nozzle kit, just move one a couple inches away, problem solved and no need to break out the black light from your closet.

 

[karolko]

Dr. booster i am totally with you, i just get too carried away. i would love to have them side by side for symmetry, but i know power is more important.

i am anal retentive when it comes to that that type of stuff.

lol

 

[turbov6joe]

I have a theory about this subject that follows Mr. Wang's aforementioned posts. I have come to a conclusion with my car that it seems to make more power and run better when the ambient air is hotter (not so much with high humidity). I'm only using a 15 row stretch IC that is obviously more efficient than a stocker, but not near that of a FMIC. A few years back Julio and I were talking about this matter over some beers in the parking lot of Motel V6. After a long conversation we both agreed that a hotter (within reason) intake charge seems to atomize the meth charge better than that of a cooler charge, thus a more efficient burn. I am of the opinion that cars that inject meth are less affected by the heat then those who do not. With that said, I'm also of the opinion that a good efficient stretch IC is about all one needs to cool the intake charge to a temp that helps to compliment/atomize the meth more efficiently. Now this only really applies to the smaller turbos as the big ones need the additional flow of the FMIC to work as they should...the big turbo will see compressor surge if the airflow gets too backed up in the IC/intake system. It's all about trial and error folks, finding what works best with your car/combo. For many years I ran a big FMIC when I was running only race fuel, this probably worked best for that combo. Since switching over to the pump gas/meth combo I have no real need for a FMIC with a 6152turbo.

 

[Razor]

If misting nozzles are being used, I doubt that the sprays would be able to contact each other because of the cross airflow.

Exactly. What is not thought here is the air velocity through the pipe. Can you image how much air is moving at WOT through the charge pipe at 25 PSI.

See with nitrous nozzles with fan tip what breaks up the fuel is the nitrous pressure 1000 PSI. Not the fan tip. With a misting nozzle it is what breaks up the methanol. On my system with a twin set to kill.. you'll run over 150 PSI of pressure. Enough to break up the methanol.

On early DIY alky kits NOS fan tips would be used. And those nozzles would be pointed torwards the IC.

Now the question Norbs asked.. how do you know if your getting even distribution.. answer is.. how do you know your getting even air distribution :redface: See the methanol saturates the air charge. But if cylinder 2 gets less air.. it will get less methanol. As the saturated air carries the methanol into the motor.

So firing some nozzles into a pipe without a hurricane blowing in the pipe.. wont get the desired affect.

Lastly.. FLASK temp.. methanol has a very low flash temperature. At 70 DF meth flashes.. so the hotter the charge air hitting the inlet of the up-pipe.. the better.

Cheers

 

[Alky V6]

I have a theory about this subject that follows Mr. Wang's aforementioned posts. I have come to a conclusion with my car that it seems to make more power and run better when the ambient air is hotter (not so much with high humidity). I'm only using a 15 row stretch IC that is obviously more efficient than a stocker, but not near that of a FMIC. A few years back Julio and I were talking about this matter over some beers in the parking lot of Motel V6. After a long conversation we both agreed that a hotter (within reason) intake charge seems to atomize the meth charge better than that of a cooler charge, thus a more efficient burn. I am of the opinion that cars that inject meth are less affected by the heat then those who do not. With that said, I'm also of the opinion that a good efficient stretch IC is about all one needs to cool the intake charge to a temp that helps to compliment/atomize the meth more efficiently. Now this only really applies to the smaller turbos as the big ones need the additional flow of the FMIC to work as they should...the big turbo will see compressor surge if the airflow gets too backed up in the IC/intake system. It's all about trial and error folks, finding what works best with your car/combo. For many years I ran a big FMIC when I was running only race fuel, this probably worked best for that combo. Since switching over to the pump gas/meth combo I have no real need for a FMIC with a 6152turbo.

Joe, you have a good handle on this. Properly burning methanol and creating the most power using it has everything to do with proper temperature control during compression and the very early stages of combustion.

If the temperature is too cold, incomplete vaporization takes place, less of the fuel is available for combustion with the oxygen in the air and the part of the methanol still unvaporized will vaporize during combustion and will quench the combustion process causing a loss of power.

Ways to increase charge temperature during compression and early combustion:

Raise initial charge temperature before it gets to the cylinder by:
Using less charge coolant (methanol).
Less aftercooling of the charge air.
Increasing boost pressure.
Turbocharger running in an inefficient compressor map zone.

Raise heat buildup of the charge while in the cylinder by:
Increasing static compression ratio.
leaning out a/f ratio.
Increasing spark lead.

And, combination of any or all the above.

 

[Alky V6]

To reduce charge temperature during the compression and early part of the combustion cycle, you would just do the opposite of the items mentioned in the previous post.

There is a sweet spot of a temperature range that you want the air/fuel charge to be at during compression and combustion that will allow maximum power from the mixture. This is where spark plug heat readings become so important with alcohol engines.

If the temperature of the air/fuel charge rises above the autoignition temperature for either fuel type, during the compression or early stages of combustion, get ready to practice those head gasket r&r skills.

Be aware that when methanol autoignites, the event is less forgiving than when gasoline begins to detonate.

I would always err towards the side of overcooling the charge.

In the world of burning methanol, the engine always runs best,... right before the big bang.

 

[turbov6joe]

In the world of burning methanol, the engine always runs best,... right before the big bang.[/QUOTE]

That ain't no shiot!!