Bad thrust bearing in 370 miles?

[TURBOGTA1]

I had a simular problem with steel caps, like Lee says, poor maching, and they will say anything to get out of it.Too delicate of a job honing block/caps, and there are just a few people out there can can do a Buick the rite way. This time around, I went with stock caps and a girdle. So far, so good.

 

[turbojimmy]

I had a simular problem with steel caps, like Lee says, poor maching, and they will say anything to get out of it.Too delicate of a job honing block/caps, and there are just a few people out there can can do a Buick the rite way.

The guy I took mine to is widely acknowledged as among the best in the biz for the 3.8. Anyone can make a mistake, though (I'm not saying he did, nor did he, but it's obvioiusly not impossible). In addition to finding someone competent you also have to find someone who will stand behind their work (which often is a lot harder than finding someone who is merely competent). He took the car back, pulled the motor, corrected the problem (which included replacing the crankshaft, bearings, etc.) and put the motor back in no questions asked. I think he charged me like $100 for some gaskets. I believe him when he tells me that he didn't find a specific cause of the problem. I think he's just a stand-up guy and erred on the side of making the customer happy rather than trying to blame it on something I did or installed.

I do agree that typically if there is any ambiguity at all the engine guy is going to try to place blame on the trans or TC rather than admit to poor machining. I'd say that if the TC and line pressures check out that the rebuilder has some 'splainin to do.

Jim

 

[Silver 'T' Top]

Can you hear the knock or picking it up on the gauge? I think i'm going through the same problem. Fresh motor (800 mi) w/girdle ,clevite 77 bearings and vigilante 9.5 lock-up.My knock gauge is been going crazy (even with the trans in park I can get 18 deg KR by snapping the throttle to about 4000 rpm) but I cant hear any knock.I dont mean to high jack your thread but I too am getting discourged

I could hear it, knock gauge was not picking up on it though.

 

[Silver 'T' Top]

I'm going with lee tompson..and the do you have billet caps installed?

Yes, billet caps were installed.

 

[Silver 'T' Top]

The guy I took mine to is widely acknowledged as among the best in the biz for the 3.8. Anyone can make a mistake, though (I'm not saying he did, nor did he, but it's obvioiusly not impossible). In addition to finding someone competent you also have to find someone who will stand behind their work (which often is a lot harder than finding someone who is merely competent). He took the car back, pulled the motor, corrected the problem (which included replacing the crankshaft, bearings, etc.) and put the motor back in no questions asked. I think he charged me like $100 for some gaskets. I believe him when he tells me that he didn't find a specific cause of the problem. I think he's just a stand-up guy and erred on the side of making the customer happy rather than trying to blame it on something I did or installed.

I do agree that typically if there is any ambiguity at all the engine guy is going to try to place blame on the trans or TC rather than admit to poor machining. I'd say that if the TC and line pressures check out that the rebuilder has some 'splainin to do.

Jim

Should be pulling the pan tomorrow and see whats what. This will not be a recurring problem. :frown:

 

[turbojimmy]

I could hear it, knock gauge was not picking up on it though.

My knock gauge didn't pick it up either. You'd think it would, but it didn't. It was only listening to it idle one day that I noticed it.

Jim

 

[Silver 'T' Top]

My knock gauge didn't pick it up either. You'd think it would, but it didn't. It was only listening to it idle one day that I noticed it.

Jim

Someone told me they only respond to a certain frequency, thats why they won't light up on an engine "mechanical" type of knock.

 

[Silver 'T' Top]

there are just a few people out there can can do a Buick the rite way.

Let's keep the ideas coming, who exactly out there "can do a Buick the rite way" ?

 

[highboost]

dont wast your money on the over priced federal mogul bearings as they are made by clevite (if you look on the back of the bearing they actually say clevite on them, at least mine do). just buy them straight from the source and save some money.

 

[Silver 'T' Top]

dont wast your money on the over priced federal mogul bearings

At this point I 'm not worried about the price of a new thrust bearing, just trying to figure out if I wasted serious coinage on the whole damn engine !!!!

 

[GNVYUS 1]

Sorry to hear this, I am putting in a new block and if I had to pull it and spend more $$ on it around 400 miles I would be pissed also.

If you did not get on it, how is the converter ballooning?
I do not buy this one at all and then on top of it, its a new Precision.

Plain and simple, your builder would have a bulls eye on him IMO.

 

[Silver 'T' Top]

Nope, i don't buy it either, not with all you guys running that combination here. In my experiences with small block Chevys over the years, pretty much the only way that thing would go out so quick on one is "someone" screwed up the line bore/hone operation. :frown:

 

[Scott Atk]

Mark,
I have a local guy out at the speedway that did a nice job on my motor. Let me know if you want his contact info.

 

[Silver 'T' Top]

See what happens with you know who, but..... I'll see you this weekend at some point Scott.

 

[JoelGN]

dont wast your money on the over priced federal mogul bearings as they are made by clevite (if you look on the back of the bearing they actually say clevite on them, at least mine do). just buy them straight from the source and save some money.

Silly me. I thought that Clevite was made by Glacier Vandervell, a subsidiary of Dana Corporation, and Federal Mogul bearings were made by Federal Mogul. The clevites are made in Collierville, Tenessee and the FMs in Southfield Michigan. There are virtually no similarities between the two, either in appearance or materials used. Clevites feature a flat, partially grooved, copper thrust surface that actually tries to bond to the crank. FMs feature a ramped, fully grooved, silicon-injected aluminum thrust surface. FMs were designed by a GN owner for GNs and are far superior for providing a safety margin against crank walking. Their design is based on diesel brgs. Clevites have excellent strength, embedability, conformation, longevity, etc., however, their thrust surfaces often toast crankshafts while the driver is totally unaware of it.

 

[Razor]

I had a simular problem with steel caps, like Lee says, poor maching, and they will say anything to get out of it.Too delicate of a job honing block/caps, and there are just a few people out there can can do a Buick the rite way. This time around, I went with stock caps and a girdle. So far, so good.

Ditto on the girdle thingy..

My thrust went out on mine in May this year. After pulling out the converter, it was an old Art Carr without the anti-ballooning washer.. so it definately expanded.

The clearance from converter to transmission is to be set from .125-.375 per Joey at Protorque. To get proper converter to pump engagement.

FWIW mine would det off my knock sensor at 2500 RPMs while driving.. that was my first hint, then it took out the crank sensor.. second hint.. then would not hold oil prime.. so every startup after it sat for a little while..would be noisy then clear up... finally took the serpentine belt off.. and underneath the car grabbed the flywheel and yanked on it back and forth.. lots of play.

Car ran times in sig with bad thrust :biggrin:

 

[8tsixt]

play?

how much would you guuys say is too much "play" on the crank? how do i check my converter? thanks to all.

 

[Hacksaw]

Kenne Bell recommended .007" front to back on the crank.

 

[Silver 'T' Top]

Ditto on the girdle thingy..

My thrust went out on mine in May this year. After pulling out the converter, it was an old Art Carr without the anti-ballooning washer.. so it definately expanded.

The clearance from converter to transmission is to be set from .125-.375 per Joey at Protorque. To get proper converter to pump engagement.

That spec of .125-.375, ain't that a quite a bit of leeway,1/4 of an inch? Now can someone explain to me how exactly a converter balloons, have run some cheap converters in my time and never had one "balloon". AND keep in mind this motor was not even hot rodded yet!!!

 

[VadersV6]

That spec of .125-.375, ain't that a quite a bit of leeway,1/4 of an inch? Now can someone explain to me how exactly a converter balloons, have run some cheap converters in my time and never had one "balloon". AND keep in mind this motor was not even hot rodded yet!!!

It will increase in diameter. Thats why you weld these plates all around the perimeter to keep this from happening. "Anti balooning plates". Mine probably has 1/2" slop. With the converter unbolted, I can push it back toward the tranny and end up with probably a 1/2" gap between the converter and flexplate. It would explain why my lockup only works going uphill. Converter drops back and the pump engages.