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Balancing gas mileage and power with boost, 93+alky, and **compression ratio**

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280Z28

New Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2003
Messages
4
I highlighted compression ratio because that's the item I'm most up in the air about right now. I'm working on a new build with some peculiar goals that I think are interesting... a step beyond the thinking that goes into most race motors.

Design restriction: When *not* under boost, the motor must run with only 93 pump gas. During this time, which I'll call "regular driving," I absolutely want to maximize gas mileage potential. For compression ratio, this means up. With no boost, we'd be talking a good 10.5:1. But then there's boost.... I want capability of 30mpg from this thing... the car's lightweight and the ECU can do whatever I want to make it meet this, but 8.0:1 would probably make it impossible however I look at it.

Design restriction: When under boost, the motor can be aided by a second fuel system. I'm willing to have the intake modified to hold a whole second set of fuel rails and big port injectors (40lbs?), which would simply have a 0% duty cycle during normal driving, but controlled sequentially as a second cooperative fuel system (I'm using an ECU no one's seen before, the capability is there to run twin port sequential fuel systems and sequential port nitrous all at once). Under boost, I want to maximize power. This means more boost (not that simple I know, but still, it means more boost in general). The fuel choice in the second fuel system must not kill my wideband O2 sensors!!

My heads flow 320+cfm at the lift I'm going with on the intake side, 225+cfm on the exhaust side (I mis-wrote the numbers on the exhaust so I don't know the specific numbers :mad: ). The block and bottom end can handle anything I throw at it that won't knock. Turbo is an AirWerks S88, and my target output levels on 93+alky is four figures at the ground, so call it a 1200bhp target.

Another consideration: what stroke should I go with? Less stroke = less cubes, but more allowable RPM which means more HP at lower TQ. It also means I don't have to dish the pistons as much. More stroke = more cubes, more torque, more dish, etc. Block is a GM LSX block on a 4.125" bore. Crank can have any stroke really in order to meet my goals. So far I've really looked at a 3.750" (401cid) or 4.00" (427cid).

So let's talk compression ratio and stroke with these design goals in mind. Should be fun and different :cool:

I've done lots of searching on different forums, so I'm really looking for actual numbers people would suggest and why they chose them to maximize BOTH gas mileage and power.
 
Car that is light weight shouldnt have an issue making fuel economy. Hell our Buicks at 3500+ lbs can do 26 MPG in the HWY when tuned on a chip.. nothing special. Cant see how a car that weighs less cant do more.

Using a turbo on a high compression engine creates more problems. If you want a good compression ratio.. 9-9.5:1. Gives plenty of room for boost, increases drivabilty over 8:1.. and is way more boost friendly that 10.5:1.
 
Car that is light weight shouldnt have an issue making fuel economy. Hell our Buicks at 3500+ lbs can do 26 MPG in the HWY when tuned on a chip.. nothing special. Cant see how a car that weighs less cant do more.

Using a turbo on a high compression engine creates more problems. If you want a good compression ratio.. 9-9.5:1. Gives plenty of room for boost, increases drivabilty over 8:1.. and is way more boost friendly that 10.5:1.

IIRC, methanol would likely be too damaging for me to want to use it with all the electronics involved. Water doesn't burn (durrrr). Leaded race gas definitely kills O2 sensors. Which leaves ethanol. I'd be running 100% (in this case) ethanol in the 2nd fuel system.

Say I went with the high side ... 9.5:1. That's "pretty high" for a high boost motor - especially one built for pump gas. At 400-427ci and very high flowing heads, I should be able to meet my target power levels at under 30psi boost (I've looked around and I can pretty confidently say this is a safe upper bound for what it will take). So the question is - do you think a 50/50 ratio of ethanol/pump93 would be a suitable fuel for planning 30psi on a 9.5:1 motor? Of course everything is adjustable down to cylinder-by-cylinder trimming, but a 50/50 mix would be easy to achieve.
 
Trying to run on ethanol or methanol will increase your volume, and drop your MPG.

What is damaging about methanol and electronics. It burns completely clean leaving no residue.

Now if you pour methanol into your computer and on your sensors you'll have issues. Running on it full time has issues, I wouldnt do it on a street car. Especially with summer months and vapor lock.

Think your putting the carriage before the horse on these issues. And there is nothing "safe" making 3hp per CI. On limited octane fuels or expecting gas mileage.

What size injectors for 1200 HP and you want what fuel economy :rolleyes:
 
The alcohol would only come into the picture under boost, and as such wouldn't affect my gas mileage under normal driving. I plan to use 42lb injectors on the 93pump rails, and another set of 42lb injectors on the alcohol rails.

I take it I can build the second set of rails to handle methanol or ethanol, but either way my sensors are fine. That's good :) I knew leaded race gas was bad and methanol is corrosive, just checking that the corrosiveness is only pre-combustion.

The 50/50 mixture would be available as needed under boost via dual fuel systems. Would 50/50 pump 93/ethanol blend be suitable for 30psi boost?

The car is in no way, shape, or form a street car. :no:

Oh, and 30mpg. :)
 
I would stay under 10 to one if pump gas is involved. When flushing my system with pump gas I would often get run-on when I shut the engine down. That was with a CR of 10.4 to one.
 
I talked with my builder and he said alcohol and gas is a nasty mixture - won't burn well in high ratios like that. Looks like I'm stuck with 93pump in the main rails and unleaded race gas in the second fuel system, plus maybe a "regular" style alcohol setup with the primary benefit being extra cooling.

I think we're (my builder and I) going with the most promising ratio being 9.0:1.
 
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