beehive valvesprings

[ITSNOTAGN]

wondering your thoughts on the new beehive,ovate wire valvesprings. i havent saw this topic come up, or maybe i just missed it. anyway they definately have much better valve control and much reduced mass on top. you think these would be a good install? any machining nescessary?
ls1 stock replacement comp cams #26915
1.29od
.885id
seat 105@1.8"
open 293@1.2"

 

[Russ Merritt]

293 # might be too much pressure. Probably end up wiping a flat tappet cam pretty quick. Not saying you couldn't get lucky though. I'm going to run the beehives on both my engines, 26120s for a roller set up. 155# closed 380ish open. I think they are gonna be the killer set up. Expensive with the retainers but half the mass/weight of the big ones.

 

[1QWIK6]

I keep reading about beehive valve springs too. Seems to be all positive. Anyone know what kind of beehive vavle springs go with the Ruggles 210/205 cam?

 

[Chuck Leeper]

BeehiveZ???

The beehives I am running are toooo much for a flat tappet cam.
At 1.800 installed hgt on Champ alums the seats are 170# and the open at .550 lift is 390#. These are running on a CC hyd roller.[218/212]
However, the engine picked up approx 1000 rpm, and allowed the car to go from 131+mph to 141.. also cut 2 tenths off the et.
TOTALLY different animal to drive now that the power is back!!

 

[1QWIK6]

Anyone know what kind of beehive vavle springs go with the Ruggles 210/205 cam?

TTT

 

[Chuck Leeper]

????????????

If the Ruggles cam is a Reed flat tappet, there is no beehive spring recommended for use on it..
See my above post to the ? the first time.

Better yet, I'd suggest a call to Comp Cams, as they make the beehives....

 

[Reginald West]

Maybe in a month or so I can answer your question.I just had my M&A heads for my stage 2 car set up with the springs. The cam is a COMP 596 lift, 116 separation.



REG

 

[JYLP]

What is the part number of the springs you usedk? 26095 or 26120?

 

[Raeban]

Comp 26918 are what I run with an off the shelf 206/206 comp hydraulic roller and will get you a stiffer rate than the 26915 springs. Here is a chart I put together when looking at new springs in case it helps.

EDIT: I think stock springs had a rate of 276. If you are running a flat tappet cam the rate on a popular replacement for the stocker is 308 for the comp 980s so the 26915 is fairly close. You could probably get the 26915s to work if you get the heights setup correctly.

 

[bison]

2004!!!

 

[JYLP]

I have a 218-218 hydraulic roller cam with 1.7 rockers on gn1 aluminum heads. I'm getting 511 lift according to my dial indicator. I'm not sure what springs are on there right now. It seems like the valves are floating under heavy load. When making a pass in the car, it seems to have a constant sputter between 4 and 5k rpm in 3rd or 4th gear and it pretty much falls on its face. There has also always been a strange knock detection at low mph... Always between 10 and 50 mph and always between 6 and 19 degrees of knock. The vacuum pressure is also low. At idle I'm only getting between 5 and 8 psi vac according to my boost gauge.

I hope a set of valve springs are going over all the vacuum lines will solve all my problems, but if you have any thoughts, I'm all ears. Any idea what springs I should go with?

 

[JYLP]

Oh wow, I just noticed that xD. I glanced at it and thought 2014 lol.

 

[bison]

I have a 218-218 hydraulic roller cam with 1.7 rockers on gn1 aluminum heads. I'm getting 511 lift according to my dial indicator. I'm not sure what springs are on there right now. It seems like the valves are floating under heavy load. When making a pass in the car, it seems to have a constant sputter between 4 and 5k rpm in 3rd or 4th gear and it pretty much falls on its face. There has also always been a strange knock detection at low mph... Always between 10 and 50 mph and always between 6 and 19 degrees of knock. The vacuum pressure is also low. At idle I'm only getting between 5 and 8 psi vac according to my boost gauge.

I hope a set of valve springs are going over all the vacuum lines will solve all my problems, but if you have any thoughts, I'm all ears. Any idea what springs I should go with?

What is seat pressure and what is lobe lift? Something doesn't sound right

 

[20psiofevil]

I would not use the 915's. For the price yellow ls3 take offs are good for .540 lift. I have a set if interested ($50 shipped). I run the comp 26918's now on .580 lift.

 

[JYLP]

What is seat pressure and what is lobe lift? Something doesn't sound right

The cam came with the motor. I put a dial indicator on top of a valve spring retainer and zeroed it out at the lowest point. I spun the motor around by hand and the dial indicator went around 5 times and stopped at 11. I was told that its a 218-218 cam by the previous owner of the motor. I don't have the cam card. I think the springs are the stock ones that come with gn1 aluminum heads and they aren't designed for roller cams.

From what I researched, a 218-218 cam has 511 lift... However, that's all I'm getting with the 1.7 roller rockers. I'll try to upload a picture of the springs and rockers.

Is there a way to measure the seat pressure with the heads on the car?

 

[Raeban]

To measure seat pressure you need a valve height checker and a valve spring tester so no, no real accurate way to read spring pressure. Also, measuring valve lift in the manner you described needs to be done with a light weight checking spring instead of the valves springs unless you have a solid lifter in the car.

 

[JYLP]

To measure seat pressure you need a valve height checker and a valve spring tester so no, no real accurate way to read spring pressure. Also, measuring valve lift in the manner you described needs to be done with a light weight checking spring instead of the valves springs unless you have a solid lifter in the car.

They are morel roller lifters, but I don't know if they are solid or not. Its my uncle's car, he has me working on it for him. If don't start the car for a few days and check the same way I did before, I should get a different number if they are hyd, right? Where might I find a check spring?

 

[Raeban]

Hardware stores should have a universal compression spring that will work. The idea is to get a spring that is light enough that it wont compress the hydraulic lifter, but will still hold the valve train tight. Summit sells them too

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/cca-4758-1

In regards to getting a different number from one day to the next I wouldn't say that is definitive. Once the torque generated by the valve spring overcomes the torque from the hydraulic lifter it will open and residual oil pressure left in the lifter will likely get pushed out anyways. The checking springs are nice to have around and cheap either way. Summit will also sell a height checker too.

 

[bison]

At this point you need to back up and find out more accurately what you have. First you remove an ex and and in rocker and measure the lift at the pushrod. This will get you close to actual lobe lift. Then you need to verify the rocker ratio. You can remove an intake and ex spring and use a checking spring as mentioned above. A light spring won't collapse the plunger and will allow you to measure lift more accurately. Then you need to measure your springs installed height, pressure at this height, pressure at full lift, and the coil bind height. When you get all this info post back with it and we can advise

 

[JYLP]

So I changed the valve springs to the PAC 1201 beehives and adjusted the valves. The vacuum came up to 10-11psi at idle rpm of about 900-950. I drove it and the rpm shot up to 6k for the first time. Before changing the valve springs the rpm would never go over 4,900. It only hit 6k for a second and then dropped to like 5,100 or 5,200 and there was a single very quick pop sound as soon as it hit 6k. All of this happened within less than 1/2 of a city block (didn't want to push it with sorry brakes). I will upload a video and post the link here. I have to try bleeding the brakes again since I had to remove the booster to get to the 2 rear valve springs and I only bled the bottom bolts (4 bleeder bolts on each caliper).

After I did that little test run, I went to get pizza (lol) and on the way there the car wouldn't go up to 6k anymore, just 5,100 -5,200 (only tried twice). On my way home, I tried to see how much boost it would hold with the foot brake and it wouldn't hold 1psi. When I left from that traffic light, the exhaust manifold gasket blew...again.... Passenger side #2 cylinder towards the top front of the exhaust port. I've tried different gaskets, even tried doubling up the gaskets on that one side, but always the same results. These last gaskets lasted the longest (remflex). I'm going to change over to studs and see if that fixes the issue. Seems like that top bolt keeps backing out like 1/4th turn and then the gasket goes... I have to wait until Tuesday to get more gaskets, so I'll pick up some studs while I'm out.

I will turn the boost down, put the chip to stock, turn the alky off and see if it has any issues and go from there after I go over the valve adjustment again. That was my first time adjusting valves on a car and I did it by feel. To me, they seemed too tight at 0 lift, so I adjusted them to I could just feel a little restriction when trying to spin the push rods. I adjusted each one at 0 lift. Oh and it only picked up 2.3 knock. The ac compressor bolt backed out a little and the belt tensioner taps it ever so slightly... I have to fix that too...