Brake Pads. EBC or Willwood?

[NY Twin Turbo]

I just received my factory replacement Willwood Calipers today. They come with new Willwood pads.

I have recently put a new set of the yellow level EBC pads on the front. They weren't cheap. They are hardly used up and still like brand new.

Should I reuse the EBCs on the new calipers? At least till they have worn down a little?

 

[RmvBfrFlght]

I'd use the EBC yellows over the Wilwood pads. Not only are they already bedded to the rotors, they likely have a much higher coefficient of friction then the Wilwood pads. Which if they are the BP-10's, will be true.

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[NY Twin Turbo]

I'd use the EBC yellows over the Wilwood pads. Not only are they already bedded to the rotors, they likely have a much higher coefficient of friction then the Wilwood pads. Which if they are the BP-10's, will be true.

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That's what I figured. Thanks.

 

[dynoman]

To bad you didn't upgrade the pads to BP20 's when you bought the calipers. It would have been about a $15 up charge . I just did that with my Dynopro 6 front brake kit I just got . They said I would be better off with the BP20's over the BP10's slowing down from 130 mph @ 3700lbs.

 

[NY Twin Turbo]

To bad you didn't upgrade the pads to BP20 's when you bought the calipers. It would have been about a $15 up charge . I just did that with my Dynopro 6 front brake kit I just got . They said I would be better off with the BP20's over the BP10's slowing down from 130 mph @ 3700lbs.

I might be wrong, But I was led to believe EBC yellow pads are petty much better at everything and anything Willwood makes.
I think the EBC green is even better than yellow. But I'm not sure if they make green to fit a factory configured caliper.

 

[dynoman]

I wonder where that info came from , because I can't find any comparison between the two and Wilwood makes 12 different compounds of pad material . Anything is better than Auto Zone specials though .
Sam

 

[NY Twin Turbo]

I wonder where that info came from , because I can't find any comparison between the two and Wilwood makes 12 different compounds of pad material . Anything is better than Auto Zone specials though .
Sam

Well I guess it was just something I've heard time and time again. I overheard many people mention EBC pads were the bad-ass pads. So I bought them. I never compared to anything else because I never owned any other performance vehicles with bad ass brakes.

But if I'm wrong, I'll be more than happy to swap them out for something else. Money is no object. I want the best on earth. What do you recommend for a stock style caliper?

I don't plan to put a chute on the car, and it has to stop from 150 mph. And they also have to work on the street.

 

[dynoman]

I'm no expert on brake pads , I just read a lot and research things I hear ( the interweb makes it easy ) . I upgraded my pads from BP10's to BP20's after looking at Wilwoods pad application & performance charts that compared all of their pads to each other . Sam

 

[NY Twin Turbo]

I'm no expert on brake pads , I just read a lot and research things I hear ( the interweb makes it easy ) . I upgraded my pads from BP10's to BP20's after looking at Wilwoods pad application & performance charts that compared all of their pads to each other . Sam

Well, now that I put the question out there...........Anyone else have input?

Here it is again. How long they last and how much they cost is not a factor. What are the best stock style brake pads on earth?

Let me guess. The answer is never that easy.

 

[RmvBfrFlght]

> Let me guess. The answer is never that easy.

So true, there are many things to look at when it comes to pads. Get too aggressive and they eat the rotors. Also, dust and noise are a consideration. Then with this being a manual brake system (no booster), makes it important to get pads with a higher then normal mu (coefficient of friction).

Add to that the change in mu versus temperature. With the BP-10's and BP-20's being mentioned, can use those for an example.

From the Wilwood catalog, the BP-10 has a higher mu (.41) then the BP-20 (.36), when cold (100* - 350* F). The BP-10 mu stays rather flat up to 900* F, which is the upper limit for those pads.

At the 350* F point the BP-20 pad continues to increase in mu. With an upper limit of 1100* F, and a mu of .53 at 900* F.
BP-10 mu is .41 at 900* F. So quite a difference there. Here is a screen shot of the graphs from their catalog. Can see how the BP-20 mu increases as the temperature goes up.

I too have a manual setup on my GN, and am considering the Carbotech AX6 pads (www.ctbrakes.com). These are a high friction pad designed mostly for autocross. From their FAQ: "A high torque brake compound delivering reliable and consistent performance over a very wide operating temperature range of 50°F to 1000°F +"

RemoveBeforeFlight

 

[dynoman]

> Let me guess. The answer is never that easy.

So true, there are many things to look at when it comes to pads. Get too aggressive and they eat the rotors. Also, dust and noise are a consideration. Then with this being a manual brake system (no booster), makes it important to get pads with a higher then normal mu (coefficient of friction).

Add to that the change in mu versus temperature. With the BP-10's and BP-20's being mentioned, can use those for an example.

From the Wilwood catalog, the BP-10 has a higher mu (.41) then the BP-20 (.36), when cold (100* - 350* F). The BP-10 mu stays rather flat up to 900* F, which is the upper limit for those pads.

At the 350* F point the BP-20 pad continues to increase in mu. With an upper limit of 1100* F, and a mu of .53 at 900* F.
BP-10 mu is .41 at 900* F. So quite a difference there. Here is a screen shot of the graphs from their catalog. Can see how the BP-20 mu increases as the temperature goes up.

View attachment 272503

I too have a manual setup on my GN, and am considering the Carbotech AX6 pads (www.ctbrakes.com). These are a high friction pad designed mostly for autocross. From their FAQ: "A high torque brake compound delivering reliable and consistent performance over a very wide operating temperature range of 50°F to 1000°F +"

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That's the chart I went by to select BP20'S, and their tech agreed that it would be better for my application. Mind you theses pads came with my brake kit , just a small up charge. Also the key words are " my application " .

 

[RmvBfrFlght]

That's the chart I went by to select BP20'S, and their tech agreed that it would be better for my application. Mind you theses pads came with my brake kit , just a small up charge. Also the key words are " my application " .

I agree, for both yours and Twin Turbo's application of hauling down from high speed the BP-20's are a good choice. The pads will heat up quickly getting into the higher mu range.

RemoveBeforeFlight

 

[NY Twin Turbo]

Great info! Thank's.

I guess I'm going to stick to the EBC until next pad change. But, when the time comes again, boy oh boy! This can get complicated. I guess someone else is going to have let me drive their low 9/ high 8 second car so I can feel it out!

Who's first?

 

[dynoman]

Joey , I see a full front and rear big disc brake upgrade in your future .

 

[NY Twin Turbo]

Joey , I see a full front and rear big disc brake upgrade in your future .

Yep. But there is a small problem with this currently.

I'm running 4-1/2 " tire up front. As long as I keep this tire/rim size up front, it doesn't seem to make any sense to have a set of giant Bear Brakes.. I can lock-up the front brakes at almost any standard street speeds. I have full pressure to the rear because I'm using the big drag radials grip to do a lot of the stopping.

The reason I'm changing the front calipers and asking about better pads is mostly to get a better "feel" on the pedal. The brakes work great after an inch of pedal travel. But before then....nothing. So I'm going with the non-low-drag calipers. I don't want to go into all the things I've tried already to eliminate the "free travel" zone. I cried about it in another thread. But this is it. If these calipers don't help, I don't care anymore. I'll drive it the way it is. Because there is no way I'm ever going to let brake fluid touch another thing on my car!!!

 

[dynoman]

I'm running 4-1/2 " tire up front. As long as I keep this tire/rim size up front

Have you run a larger front tire / wheel combo , and were the skinnies a big improvement on ET ?

 

[NY Twin Turbo]

I have had the skinnys on the front since way back when it was a stock style set-up running 11's.

Some day I may go for the big meats and wheels on all 4 corners. And when I do, I'll go for the monster brakes as well. But not yet. For now, I still like this look so I'm gonna stick with it.

 

[dynoman]

Look'in Good !!! Besides , stopping fast is way over rated !

 

[RmvBfrFlght]

Joey, your car is stunning. What a beauty

As for the long pedal there is another item to check. That is to measure how far the MC piston moves before it covers the rear compensation port. This port is in the bottom of the reservoir with a small plastic cover over it. Until the piston moves forward enough to cover the port there is no pressure being created.

It shouldn't move more then about 1/16" before this occurs. With the MC lid off can see the brake fluid exit this port into the reservoir until the port is covered by the piston seal.

To correct the distance use a washer/shim between the rear of the piston and retaining snap ring. Then adjust the pedal push rod out for about 1/32" clearance between it and the piston.

Note that the Wilwood MC's have the plastic cover over the port to prevent the fluid from shooting straight up out of the reservoir. Not so with stock MC's, they will squirt the fluid upward. And if the pedal is depressed quickly will (un)paint the underside of the hood (so don't do that).

RemoveBeforeFlight

 

[NY Twin Turbo]

Joey, your car is stunning. What a beauty

As for the long pedal there is another item to check. That is to measure how far the MC piston moves before it covers the rear compensation port. This port is in the bottom of the reservoir with a small plastic cover over it. Until the piston moves forward enough to cover the port there is no pressure being created.

It shouldn't move more then about 1/16" before this occurs. With the MC lid off can see the brake fluid exit this port into the reservoir until the port is covered by the piston seal.

To correct the distance use a washer/shim between the rear of the piston and retaining snap ring. Then adjust the pedal push rod out for about 1/32" clearance between it and the piston.

Note that the Wilwood MC's have the plastic cover over the port to prevent the fluid from shooting straight up out of the reservoir. Not so with stock MC's, they will squirt the fluid upward. And if the pedal is depressed quickly will (un)paint the underside of the hood (so don't do that).

RemoveBeforeFlight

I heard I could slightly pre-load the master cylinder (basically extend the push-rod and build a stop for it at it's standard return height) But never was it made so clear as to when too much is too much. Now I get it! Thank you!!

So your saying that as long as this piston hasn't covered the port yet, no pressure is built yet? Then I may have at least a little too much travel to begin with. And if I eliminate this, then that will get me even closer.

I'm going to get these calipers on maybe tomorrow. Then I'll see what's left over as far as pedal travel. Then when I pull the seat out in another week or two, I'll check on this also. And if adjustments need to be made then this will be addressed as well.