Cam Button / timing cover issues

[Micks87]

I had a knocking / loud tapping sound after the car got warm. I took the timing cover off and found some wear on the cover and cam button. The strange thing is, the wear on the cover is the same diameter as the end of the cam, not the button.?? Is this normal when a cam button goes bad? Do I need to replace the cover? It is a new cam with less than a thousand miles.

See picture www.mickcathey.com/cam_button.jpg

Thanks,

 

[PEACHS]

Did you make sure your timing gears are pushed fully against the the block? Also did you make sure the timing gears are aligned? Hope this helps.

 

[Micks87]

The timing gears seem to be tight to the block and aligned. Maybe the spring in the cam button was weak.. Does the cover look like it needs to be replaced?

Thanks,
Mick

 

[PEACHS]

What type of timing cover gasket did you use?

 

[Micks87]

Not sure. I just ordered a kit from Napa, should I go with the GM cover gasket? I hear they're thinner.

 

[Lee Thompson]

?

What cam do you have? I assume you can push the cam button into the cam until it is flush with the end of cam. Could the bore in end of cam be cut too deep? Without measuring, I would say the cover is OK. Cam hitting cover is definately not right.

 

[RICHIE HIGH PSI]

The older nylon button was larger than the newer roller design.
That is normal wear marks

 

[Nick Micale]

Originally posted by Micks87
I had a knocking / loud tapping sound after the car got warm. I took the timing cover off and found some wear on the cover and cam button. ................. Thanks,

Did you check elsewhere for the tapping noise?

The cover wear is normal and will not cause a noise.

The most common noise from the front cover is due to the cam sensor. Only method I have found over the past 20 years to determine if it is a cam sensor noise would be to replace the cam sensor.

 

[Lee Thompson]

Sorry

I have to disagree with that being normal wear. The dia. is way too large to be the button. Something is definately not right.

 

[Micks87]

The cam is a 109/109 cam - I'll have to look for the reciept to get the manufacturer, but the button fits correctly in the end and I had several hundred miles on it before the noise.

I am not sure it's the button is causing the noise. The cam sensor was replaced 6 years ago (30,000 miles) and there doesn't apear to be alot of play in it. Would the cam sensor cause the cam to walk forward? I may just replace the cover with a performance cover/oil pump and if I still have the noise, replace the cam sensor. I just hope the noise is not coming from below...

Thanks

 

[scottyb]

That wear mark looks identical to my original cover, still sitting on the side of the house. The orginal button had a larger nylon bushing than the new button which by the way looks just like yours. I agree that it likely is not the source of your noise.

 

[Lee Thompson]

?

That looks like a torrington roller bearing button. Still the dia. of wear is much larger than the dia. of the button, unless my eyes are fooling me. I have a few used covers laying around and none of them look like that. I still say something is not right.

 

[Micks87]

I pulled the pan today and found metal shaving. I'm not happy I checked a few of the bearing and they were shot. It doesn't look like the crank has must damage- I hope not, it's been turned before and I can afford to replace it right now. I will be pulling it this week to figure everything out. Hopefully find out where the metal came from (too much to be the timing cover), and hopefully it didn't make it to my turbo...

Mick

 

[boosted84]

I agree with Lee thompson that is too much wear and and maybe those shavings are from the cam bearings did u replace the cam spring and button when you changed the cam alot of people overlook them or did u use the same old stock spring and button only thing i can think of is the cam spring was no good and the cam was riding too much causing the cam bearings to go explaining the shavings and making the cam hit the cover good luck let us know what happens


Anthony

 

[Squid4life]

I just tore apart an older 3.8 today and there was a nylon/plastic cam retainer spring that was a LOT larger than the roller one on my 3.8. It had a lot larger wear pattern than my 85 3.8. It looks identical to your wear. I would say that the button did the wear, not the cam or anything else.

Squid

PS, I can send pics of my cover/retainer if you'd like to see.

 

[Micks87]

The cam button that was in it was not stock, and was not big. I can't recall how much damage the stock button did. I rebuilt it about 8 years ago and replaced it and the cam then. I blew a head gasket 2 years ago, replaced lifters while I had the heads off - one lifter went bad and flatten a lobe. I then replaced that cam and lifters but not the button (it didn't seem bad and only had about 30k on it. Probiblly not my best judgement call. I just hope that is where the metal came from, otherwise I may have the same problem again after rebuild.

If my crank is not damaged, could I replace the bearings from underneth without any problems? What are the disadvantages of doing that?