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Chuck Leeper

Chuck Leeper

Toxic old bastard
Staff member
Joined
May 28, 2001
Messages
16,518
Oldtimer once told me that he glas beads the lobes, to create a surface that better retains lube oil.
He taped off the journals, beaded the lobes, washed the cam, lubed w/ moly disulfide, and put it in.
NE1 subscribe to/use this process?
Thot about it on my 206/206......
BTW, the oldtimer was Jim Ruggles.:smug:
 
Kinda hard to argue with an old timer that has his street cred.......

For me I like to have everything ready to go so when I turn the key and it starts I dont have to shut it down
Water in the block heads and radiator, an extra jug of water ready to top it off, extra house fan to blow on the radiator, cam sensor set properly and a scan tool set up to watch temp so I can run it for 20 minutes at 2000-2500 rpm.

I have also noticed that when you set the cam sensor in the motor after it is set if you rotate the engine backwards 1/2
revolution the engine will usually start within 1 rev

What oil are you going to use for break-in?
 
I spoke (years ago) with the lube guy at the GM Tech Center. They were doing all sorts of tests using (reportedly) V6 blocks. His secret recipe was to polish the grinder marks off the bottom of the lifter. The reasoning was that the high spots would poke thru the oil/lube film and cause metal transfer thus wrecking the break-in process. Also he said if the lifter didn't spin it would have a short life.

Another note is that the lifter has a radius on the bottom (its not flat), I think we all are aware of this. The contact point on the lobe is slightly off center due to the taper of the lobe. (this is what causes the spin). If this contact point is too close to the edge of the lobe, then the lifter life will also be shortened.

Nothing against Mr Ruggles, he was a true pioneer. Just wanted to inject more date for discussion.

Bob
(back under my rock)
 
I also think IIRC that the #3 exhaust lobe needs a reverse taper ground on it due to that lifter bore being in the wrong
location. Does anyone know if that is the one, its been a long time since I did a flat tappet cam.

TurboBob said:
I spoke (years ago) with the lube guy at the GM Tech Center. They were doing all sorts of tests using (reportedly) V6 blocks. His secret recipe was to polish the grinder marks off the bottom of the lifter. The reasoning was that the high spots would poke thru the oil/lube film and cause metal transfer thus wrecking the break-in process. Also he said if the lifter didn't spin it would have a short life.

Another note is that the lifter has a radius on the bottom (its not flat), I think we all are aware of this. The contact point on the lobe is slightly off center due to the taper of the lobe. (this is what causes the spin). If this contact point is too close to the edge of the lobe, then the lifter life will also be shortened.

Nothing against Mr Ruggles, he was a true pioneer. Just wanted to inject more date for discussion.

Bob
(back under my rock)
Click to expand...

Bob did he offer any advise to how he would polish the lifters? I have heard this recommend elsewhere as well.
 
chasmat2316 said:
who on earth is still using a flat tappet cam anyway?
Click to expand...

We use lots of flat tappet hydraulic cams in our engine builds and never have issues.

Hydraulic roller cams are over rated in my opinion as a stock cam will run easily into the 10's, and we have no reliability issue with them as long as synthetic engine oil is not used as is stated by the cam manufacturers.

Now you have me thinking? I have planned to build a mid-10 sec. performance engine for one of my street cars, so maybe I will do a hydraulic flat tappet cam just to prove this point! :)
 
Agree with nick, I build a lot of old muscle car engines and just recently finished an olds 455 for a customer and use the flat tappet cam in most of these older engine builds, they all run like a top and run forever as long as you break them in properly and use the additive.By the way a full roller setup costs about four times the amount of a flat tappet and your only going to see a gain of about 10 to 15 horsepower, spend that money on a good set of heads and youll have way more fun.
 
TurboBob said:
I spoke (years ago) with the lube guy at the GM Tech Center. They were doing all sorts of tests using (reportedly) V6 blocks. His secret recipe was to polish the grinder marks off the bottom of the lifter. The reasoning was that the high spots would poke thru the oil/lube film and cause metal transfer thus wrecking the break-in process. Also he said if the lifter didn't spin it would have a short life.

Another note is that the lifter has a radius on the bottom (its not flat), I think we all are aware of this. The contact point on the lobe is slightly off center due to the taper of the lobe. (this is what causes the spin). If this contact point is too close to the edge of the lobe, then the lifter life will also be shortened.

Nothing against Mr Ruggles, he was a true pioneer. Just wanted to inject more date for discussion.

Bob
(back under my rock)
Click to expand...


A good point, Bob. I use 1500 wet/dry, light oil, on the bandsaw table.
 
Nick Micale said:
We use lots of flat tappet hydraulic cams in our engine builds and never have issues.

Hydraulic roller cams are over rated in my opinion as a stock cam will run easily into the 10's, and we have no reliability issue with them as long as synthetic engine oil is not used as is stated by the cam manufacturers.

Now you have me thinking? I have planned to build a mid-10 sec. performance engine for one of my street cars, so maybe I will do a hydraulic flat tappet cam just to prove this point! :)
Click to expand...

Why no synthetic oils? Just curious.
 
Its not that you cant use synthetic oil its the fact that you have to run an oil with zddp which contains zinc and phosphorous because its a great lubricator, which is a must for a flat tappet cam as these cams do have friction between the lifter and the cam. The cam lobe has a taper on it from front to back which does two jobs one is to spin the lifter in the lifter bore and the other is to preload the cam to the back of the block, just as TurboBob said, this is why you don't have to run a cam button on a flat tappet cam like you do on a roller setup, and this causes friction which is why the zddp is needed.They have taken the zinc and phosphorous out of the new oils because it kills the catalytic convertor and they don't need it because all of the new engines have roller bumpsticks in them from the factory.As for running synthetic its alright to do just not for break in as if its a new engine with new rings the synthetic is so slick the rings wont seat, just make sure you use a synthetic with zddp already added or use the additive in the bottle after you break the cam or engine in with conventional motor oil.
 
Last edited:
TR Custom Parts said:
Why no synthetic oils? Just curious.
Click to expand...

My reasons are:

1. Synthetic oil will drain down off cylinder walls, bearings and the cam in about 2 days. Regular oil will never drain off the metal surfaces.

2. The life of crankcase oil is determined by contamination which is from 1000-3000 miles in a GN no matter if it is regular or synthetic oil.

3. There is no advantage to use synthetic oil in a GN I have ever heard or seen, so why waste the $$$?
 
Nick Micale said:
My reasons are:

1. Synthetic oil will drain down off cylinder walls, bearings and the cam in about 2 days. Regular oil will never drain off the metal surfaces.

2. The life of crankcase oil is determined by contamination which is from 1000-3000 miles in a GN no matter if it is regular or synthetic oil.

3. There is no advantage to use synthetic oil in a GN I have ever heard or seen, so why waste the $$$?
Click to expand...
Don't disagree at all the conventional oils work fine and have done a great job for years, kinda like what I said earlier about the roller cams, not very much bang for the buck over the flat tappets, spend the money on stuff that will really wake up the car and put a smile on youre face and a frown on the mustang owners face in the other lane ie bigger turbo or good set of heads.
 
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