Carb V6 Rebuild Parts?

[FN2XLR8]

Carb V6 Rebuild?

I'm in the planning stages for a repower of a '51 Willys Overland 4x4 pickup. The early Buick 231/3800 V6 is strongly recommended in the Willys world for a repower of these rigs. And since I'm a Buick nut, why not.

Where are rebuild parts available? TA maybe? Somewhere for less $$$ and good quality? Any tricks to maximize performance on the V6?

Are there headers available?

I'm looking for max low end torque, not rpm. Planning on an Edelbrock 4bbl intake. What is the cfm rating of the stock 4bbl Qjet on these?
Are there choices in cams? Again, low end is the goal.

What can I expect to pay for machine work and parts (I'll assemble it myself)?

Will ps, alternator brackets from a Buick 350 fit the V6?

Drivetrain combo will be Buick V6 (possibly 350).
Dana 44 front from Scout II
BOP TH350 converted with Advance Adapter to Dana 300 transfer case.
Ford 9" rear.
Probably 3.55 or 4.10 gears.

Thanks

 

[Freddie's Buick]

It's not a bad write-up....here's what I went thru:

Click the link.

http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=106733

 

[FN2XLR8]

So... the Edelbrock intake is square bore, eh. To keep it simple I guess Holley is the way to go. I know the Q-jet is a better carb for off-road though. But the throttle bracket mount needs modification to fit the Qjet, right?

Hood clearance should not be an issue with the Willys.

Headers? Where do I get headers?

What else?

Thanks.

 

[b4black]

Originally posted by FN2XLR8

Hood clearance should not be an issue with the Willys.

Then how about a factory draw-thru turbo setup?

 

[FN2XLR8]

Yeah, Buddy!

I'm guessing the turbo needs rpm to really perform and rpm isn't what I need in a hunting rig/wheeler. I can just picture the Willys buried in a snowdrift while I turn up the boost to launch outta there.

You were joking, right?

If not, convince me.

Just spoke with Dave at TA and he says the 4.1 will give me more cubes (obviously) and everything bolts on about the same. So maybe I'll get lucky and find one of those.

Thanks.

 

[b4black]

They don't need lots of RPM's, but waiting for the boost to build isn't exactly what you want when you're jumpin' puddles.

This might help with the 4.1 search:
http://home.flash.net/~rjgeorge/252V6.htm

 

[FN2XLR8]

Very good!

Are there any issues with the 4.1 that aren't found in the 3.8?

I think I saw one in the Reno pick'n pull but didn't have time to pull any engines. There were several NA 231s, one with 4bbl (or would that have been a 4.1? - it was V6 so I assumed 3.8) that I had to pass on.. and 1/2 price day.. $75 for a COMPLETE engine. Also found a '72 455 for the same price.. yikes!

Anyway, I dismissed the 4.1 as non-useable.. my bad.

Is it true all 4.1 are carb engines?
And are all the cars listed w/4.1 RWD?

Thanks for the help gang.

 

[b4black]

No special issues with the 4.1 V6. I'm keeping an eye open for one now.

All 4.1 are non-turbo, quadrajet motors. 1981 on uses computer command control (ECM).

All 4.1's are "RWD" style. Some cars like the Riviera are FWD, but use the same block and it's mounted longitudinal just like a RWD. There were no tranverse FWD 4.1 blocks.

A 4.1 is a 4.1 (except for the 4.1 Cadillac V8 )

 

[Freddie's Buick]

Originally posted by FN2XLR8
So... the Edelbrock intake is square bore, eh. To keep it simple I guess Holley is the way to go.

I don't know that for sure I use the Q-Jet and it rocks. Mark Yuhas and his 4.1 V-6 likes the Holley.

Originally posted by FN2XLR8
I know the Q-jet is a better carb for off-road though. But the throttle bracket mount needs modification to fit the Qjet, right?

With the Edelbrock intake...Yep...It's a matter of trial and error.

Originally posted by FN2XLR8
Headers? Where do I get headers?

Pace Setter 70-1093. I have 'em and they are great!

Originally posted by FN2XLR8
What else?

Thanks.

Run a search on this forum for my postings. I went from a bone stock 1981 Regal....to....well it's fast anyway. But I ain't finished yet so join in on the fun and let us know how your project progresses....

*Check out this link, although incomplete, this was my old website:

http://home.comcast.net/~familia.diaz/mypage.html

In my opinion I'd stay away from a 4.1 because they're getting harder to find. 3.8's are scathered all over the universe. In fact, I think I saw one in a Mars Land Rover picture next to a can of Bud.

 

[FN2XLR8]

In my opinion I'd stay away from a 4.1 because they're getting harder to find. 3.8's are scathered all over the universe.
[/B]

Interesting comment. I was thinking along those lines especially since my last trip to the yard and seeing at least 4 NA 231 and only 1 possible 4.1. I'm in the habit now of buying more than one engine in the event the current runner comes undone and needs replacement. I guess that's why I have a 455 in my GS, a running 430, a running low mile rebuilt '70 455 and a running '76 455. I guess you could call that overboard but I'm hooked. Dunno if I have room for more than a couple V6s and if I build the first one right it'll probably outlive me anyway.

Dave at TA recommended 350 pistons for the 3.8 to bump compression up some. I'm at 5000' + elevation so detonation isn't an issue. I run 11:1 in the 455 on 91 octane with no problems.

How much more performance could I expect with the extra 20 cubes in the 4.1? It's only a Willys and no need for speed.

Is there a dual plane intake available with a Qjet or dual bolt pattern? I suppose the Qjet from the 4.1 might be a good choice even if I go with the 3.8.. if it's still in the yard where I saw it (300 miles away). I'm thinking of going back next Saturday; no doubt I'll find a 3.8 at least. Maybe I should start snagging G-body stuff.. it's everywhere.. no turbo cars though.

Thanks again. I'll keep you posted. Heck, I'll probably be spending more time here than the V8 board now that the Willys is projecto numero uno.

 

[Freddie's Buick]

Originally posted by FN2XLR8
Dave at TA recommended 350 pistons for the 3.8 to bump compression up some.

I'm not too sure about that. I've read one has to make extensive modifications to make that idea work and the results are mediocre.

My phylosphy is why bother when there are plenty of good after-market pistons out there that up the compression already. Starting out at about $200.00 for six would get you there.

If one wants to go further than 10.50, mill the heads. Though this would require machining all the other cylinder head componants and using a differant head gasket, (which is available also).

This is were a good machinist would prove his worth in pay and experiance in Buick engines.

Originally posted by FN2XLR8
Is there a dual plane intake available with a Qjet or dual bolt pattern?

I don't think you'll be able to find an easy 'bolt-on' duel plane application for intakes. Kenne Bell has the only after-market intake I know that will fit a Q-Jet without an adapter plate. Problem is that it looks like a single plane design and along with the high RPM's is the high price tag, $200.00 and up.

I think the best and only low torque duel plane intake available now is the Edelbrock, (and it's cheap too). You'll just have to buy an adapter for the Q-Jet and modify an OEM 4.1 throttle bracket.

*Also, alot of the material I read says to get the matching cam set from Edelbrock for a true low-torque performer. In my opinion they got it right.

 

[49-blues]

I got a set of ceramic coated headman headers with a true dual cat set up, also alot of carb parts i would throw in for nothing. i had a kennebell set up #1 manifold with a quadrajet ,10-1 hyper pistons with a KB cam ,lifters.

 

[FN2XLR8]

Originally posted by 49-blues
I got a set of ceramic coated headman headers with a true dual cat set up, also alot of carb parts i would throw in for nothing. i had a kennebell set up #1 manifold with a quadrajet ,10-1 hyper pistons with a KB cam ,lifters.

What kind of carb parts we talking?

I might be interested in the headers at a later date. Right now I'm in the planning stages. Also, no need for cat-back stuff here; there's no emissions testing in my area (imagine that!). I tossed the cat off my 454 '93 suburban years ago.

I like the idea of the Edlebrock intake with a "matched" cam. Again, it will be some time before I'm ready for all the details. Still not sure if it'll be a 3.8 or 4.1.. depends on what's in the boneyard when I get there I guess. I'm thinking of the 3.8 out of a bigger car (there was one with a 1bbl if I'm correct). Something that wasn't rodded too hard. Maybe I can get away with a bearing/ring job and call it good for awhile.

On the pistons for the 3.8 I'd probably go with a regular 3.8 piston to keep costs down and I'm not going to worry much about compression bumps other than piston selection. Machine work is outrageous when it gets fancy (I know this from my 464 buildup) and it's not easy to find a shop that has a clue about Buick idiocyncracies donchaknow.

What kind of rpm does the 3.8 like? Shift points? Red line?
I'll be adapting a TH350/Dana-Spicer 300 behind it for the 4x4 application. I figure it's less HP to run than the 400 and should hold up fine with only V6 power. I hammered one pretty hard behind a 12s 464 GS for a few years with no problems.

Thanks.

 

[49-blues]

I put a KB cam in mine with a low profile-i believe it to be 204/204 cam- revs great and it sounded like a big block chevy with this exhaust system. it reved up fast to 4200-5200, i think the red line was 6400 or 7000 rpms, it also has the hi-rev lifters. i think the best manifod out there was the KB #1 manifold-single plane and it had provisions for an EGR valve. I used a quadrajet 4 barrel off a 307 that was recalibrated for two less cylinders.let me know if you need any of the parts. im in the process of converting that engine to a turbo.

 

[dan66cj5]

the rochester m4m qjets are rated at 850 cfm.. their great carbuators.. stick with them

Have u considered using a odd-fire buick v6 ? they have more low end power.. and love low rpm's.. I have one in my jeep.. its a great motor. And pretty much any buick 3.8 parts will swap.

Offenhauser makes a dual plane spreadbore intake manifold.. so you can go with one of those. I have one myself.. but spreadbore version.. and I have to use the adapter

I'm in search of a offenhauser dual port(not plane, their diffrent) intake manifold I think it'll give you most low end power.

However.. I'm considering GN heads(square exhaust ports) and a 4.1 qjet intake and some stock NA 3.8 headers to gain more low end out of my oddfire v6.

Dan

 

[FN2XLR8]

Originally posted by dan66cj5
the rochester m4m qjets are rated at 850 cfm.. their great carbuators.. stick with them

850cfm on a V6? Are you sure? Lots of carb for a little pump. I run an 800 Qjet on my 455.

Have u considered using a odd-fire buick v6 ? they have more low end power.. and love low rpm's.. I have one in my jeep.. its a great motor. And pretty much any buick 3.8 parts will swap.

I've been going with what's suggested and the even-fire has been the consensus up until now. Hmmm...? And the Edlebrock intake is for the even-fire.

[QUOTE}
Offenhauser makes a dual plane spreadbore intake manifold.. so you can go with one of those. I have one myself.. but spreadbore version.. and I have to use the adapter

Are the Offy dual plane intakes in spreadbore available new? Either way a 4-hole spacer/adapter might be the ticket for more low end.

Is there a block casting # that's more desirable than another? Can the best block be identified by year of car/manufacture?
I've heard some are considered better candidates for rebuild and should have several choices at the junkyard. Where are the casting numbers (if one is better than another)?

Also, I hear the 4.1 might have the "turbo" type crank? I might just opt for the 4.1 if the one I saw is still there. Will the aftermarket intakes fit the 4.1?

Thanks for your patience gang.