EightSecV6
MDBL
- Joined
- Jul 18, 2001
- Messages
- 2,514
Definatelty check that too!
Concern with T/A Motor - suggestions?
- Thread starter Larry
- Start date
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Definatelty check that too!
Just so were on the same page - This motor has 159 miles on it. This Rotella oil is not synthetic and I believe without seals and the oil building up in the valve covers to the point the oil is up to or covering the rockers- oil is going to find or be sucked down the valve stem in addition to have a windage probem. Just my opinion. Larry
Well, things got alot worse when I got home today from out of town. I had bought some staight 30 wt and a 4th filter.I drove the car around the block to warm up the oil.I drained the Rotella oil and pulled the filter.. As I looked at the oil - I took a double take and then a third - Copper specs throughout! Honestly, I just sat on the bumper and stared at the wall. That is to depressing. The first three filters I cut open looked fine. This fourth- had copper specs on the webbing. At this point- Im covering it up and will rethink this project. The 159 miles on this motor have been very easy ones- no serious boost and the timing is at 18 degrees. I just need to step back and get a grip. Dam, though the smoking was not pretty, it was fun for a bit. The car really seemed to have some serious power. As some point, and not real soon- I wll need to pull the motor to see what happened. In the mean time - I need a break from this thing. Wish I had better news - I could use it. Larry
Problems
Well Larry, I am sorry for your trouble. I think there are quite a few of us that can put ourselves in your shoes sitting on the bumper looking at the wall. I found myself staying up late and getting to the bottom of things rather than let my mind wander wondering what is wrong or what happened. That worked for me and I was better off in the long run getting it to the point where I could step back with all the information and evaluate my next move. Funny thing is I have always pushed to get it back together and make the next race. These setbacks are what and where you decide if things are really worth it.
Please keep us informed on what it is you find.
P.S. Get in touch with your engine builder before you take ANYTHING APART!!!
Well Larry, I am sorry for your trouble. I think there are quite a few of us that can put ourselves in your shoes sitting on the bumper looking at the wall. I found myself staying up late and getting to the bottom of things rather than let my mind wander wondering what is wrong or what happened. That worked for me and I was better off in the long run getting it to the point where I could step back with all the information and evaluate my next move. Funny thing is I have always pushed to get it back together and make the next race. These setbacks are what and where you decide if things are really worth it.
Please keep us informed on what it is you find.
P.S. Get in touch with your engine builder before you take ANYTHING APART!!!
Keep Your Head Up
Larry,
I've been following your thread here, And I'm sorry to see its ended up this way for you. As Ted A. stated "we've all sat on the bumper staring at the wall" Thats why we come here (Message Boards)and tell our WAR stories,good & bad. I cant tell you how many times I've wanted to just stop messing with my Buick, But like you stated "it was fun for a bit. The car really seemed to have some serious power" thats why we cant stop trying to reach our ultimate goal of "MORE POWER" Hope this all ends up working out for you. Keep us informed of your progress & Keep Your Head Up!
Chris
Larry said:
Larry,
I've been following your thread here, And I'm sorry to see its ended up this way for you. As Ted A. stated "we've all sat on the bumper staring at the wall" Thats why we come here (Message Boards)and tell our WAR stories,good & bad. I cant tell you how many times I've wanted to just stop messing with my Buick, But like you stated "it was fun for a bit. The car really seemed to have some serious power" thats why we cant stop trying to reach our ultimate goal of "MORE POWER" Hope this all ends up working out for you. Keep us informed of your progress & Keep Your Head Up!
Chris
I guess Im not alone- the more $ I spend to go faster - the less I drive it! I gotta chuckle and I am encouraged from of some of these responses here- thanks guys. Just so ya know - I did talk with Mike about 2 weeks ago concerning the oil build up in the valve covers and the oil burning. He may not have understood just how much oil I was trying to describe. He thought it best I leave it and put on a deeper oil pan. I was not confortable with that and at that point he suggested restricting the lifters themselves and putting on seals. I restricted the lifters, paid for the seals and put them on. That definately restricted the oil flow and seemed to reduce the oil burning - but not really. When I took it out on the street and brought up the boost - the smoke was still there. The brass colored specs Im seeing are very small- tiny. There are no chips or grey material. I pulled the turbo tonight and all is dry at the exhaust and compressor end. I did note the side to side play in the turbo shaft is .022 at the compressor end. I am not sure if that is good or bad. There is no play end to end. I will call Precision tomarrow. Inside the header at the Turbo is grey and dry. The throttle body in dry. I was not able to detect any end play in the crank shaft. So - it was minimal at best. It was suggested I check the cam thrust plate or brass bushings on the turbo shaft. Maybe the cam thrust plate? Maybe the material is from that seating in? That would account for the filings in the oil - but not the burning. Plus,why no filings in the oil the 1st 3 times I changed it? As suggested earlier - while I have the turbo off - I may run it to see if it smokes. That may or may not illiminate the turbo. I will also run a leak down test just to see what that shows me. I may just run it with the straight 30 wt - its odd, but maybe the rings just are not seated and maybe the filings are from the cam thrust plate seating in. hopefully, that will clear up. Any thoughts are appreciated. Larry
GARY HARVEY
Member
- Joined
- Aug 17, 2001
- Messages
- 444
Oil/ing problems
Non Detergent single weight for breakin and analized for problems. Most any of your local diesel operations can put you in touch with someone that does analysis.
Why are you pooling oil in the rocker covers? Are the return openings restrictive and is the oil piling up on both sides?
I'd like to hear you getting a little more help from the TA group with your/their
teething situations in light of the problems you have run into.
Hangin there,
Gary
Non Detergent single weight for breakin and analized for problems. Most any of your local diesel operations can put you in touch with someone that does analysis.
Why are you pooling oil in the rocker covers? Are the return openings restrictive and is the oil piling up on both sides?
I'd like to hear you getting a little more help from the TA group with your/their
teething situations in light of the problems you have run into.
Hangin there,
Gary
GARY HARVEY said:
I most likely will restart it with the non- detergent straight weight. I will change the oil again and if I see more brass like particals - I will get that analized.
I believe the was pooling of oil was caused by two things - restricted returns and to much oil being pumped up thru the lifters. As mentioned earlier- I opened up and cleared the returns in addition to reducing the feed hole in the lifter. That has reduced the quantity of oil getting up the rockers. However - it still burned oil. I know of another guy in Calif. who had the same excess oil "up top" problem. He became aware of that when he ran the 1/4 mile and realized at the end of the run he had no oil pressure - It was all in the valve covers.He to opened the drain holes, but- then bought a deeper pan and took off his high volumn oil pump.That seems to have worked for him. However- he does not have the smoking problem that I do.
As far as bring this to T/A - I am on the fence about that. Like I said earlier - I did talk with him about the pooling - he thought it best to leave it. He then suggested seals- I agreed. I was billed for them and that did not sit well with me. That in itself indicated to me - I am on my own here. I will get it - it just may take some time. I do appreciate all the thoughts expressed here. I believe it will work itself out. The can feel the motor is going to develope some serious power and at this point, I am not sorry I bought into this project. Larry
Well, that SUCKS you had to pay for the seals. I guess there wasn't enough profit in the job to throw in what should have been there in the first place IMHO.
This brings back memories on my old engine builder that always seemed to make money off of his mistakes.
This brings back memories on my old engine builder that always seemed to make money off of his mistakes.
Just Do It
Don't know on this set-up but if you can just pull the oil pan (may have to rotate crank) and check one or two main/rod bearings, not a real big job if you can get the pan off. And you will feel alot better or worse but at least you may have a good indication.
PS: remember how much $$$ you have invested and how much it may save to catch it early. Use sewing thread to tie the new pan gasket to most of the pan holes, than cut and pull the thread out when you get a number of bolts started.
Don't know on this set-up but if you can just pull the oil pan (may have to rotate crank) and check one or two main/rod bearings, not a real big job if you can get the pan off. And you will feel alot better or worse but at least you may have a good indication.
PS: remember how much $$$ you have invested and how much it may save to catch it early. Use sewing thread to tie the new pan gasket to most of the pan holes, than cut and pull the thread out when you get a number of bolts started.
Let me start out by saying how sorry that this happened Larry
Im sure some of you guys saw what I posted the other day...
My suggestion would be to call TA and see what theyre willing to work out.Since youve "worked" on the engine,id think youd have no legal recourse at all...
I know if I had just paid near $20k for an new engine,I wouldnt have touched a bolt on it besides routine maintenence.Itd be right back to TA as soon as I saw the oil pooling in the VC's.
Youd think theyd put em on a dyno like other engine builder's that get 1/2 the price they do for a complete engine.
Im sure some of you guys saw what I posted the other day...
My suggestion would be to call TA and see what theyre willing to work out.Since youve "worked" on the engine,id think youd have no legal recourse at all...
I know if I had just paid near $20k for an new engine,I wouldnt have touched a bolt on it besides routine maintenence.Itd be right back to TA as soon as I saw the oil pooling in the VC's.
Youd think theyd put em on a dyno like other engine builder's that get 1/2 the price they do for a complete engine.
EightSecV6
MDBL
- Joined
- Jul 18, 2001
- Messages
- 2,514
Larry,
If you dont mind, have Mike at T/A call me, regarding this stuff.
Thanks
If you dont mind, have Mike at T/A call me, regarding this stuff.
Thanks
BAGN said:I know what you mean. Its like a sickness. Put the keyboard down & slowly back away
I know, I know
My next door neighbor and good friend races a gold limited that belongs to his brother. They have a TA block in that car with an 88 turbo and had a few initial bugs to work out too, nothing to this extent though.Hey, Thanks- but that is not necessary. Im not looking to get anyone ticked off here. Im just looking to get this car running. I thought about it alot when I placed the order three years ago. As an independent insurance adjuster,the cost was over my head, but- I made that decision when I flew out there to meet him and see his operation- its very impressive. The motor is a good piece and their were no guarantees, mine just needs a little massaging. As a business man- he just runs his differently than I do. I can't and would not try to change that. Thanks for taking your time here. LarryEightSecV6 said:
I understand that these sorts of things can and will happen. I was seriously considering buying a T/A performance engine myself. I have since gotten a complete Stage 2 engine. I just think that they would stand behind there product better if they want anyone to have any confidence in their product. If I had that kind of r&d in a project and charging people that kind of money I certainly would!
