Concern with T/A Motor - suggestions?

[Larry]

Let me start out by saying how sorry that this happened Larry

Im sure some of you guys saw what I posted the other day...

My suggestion would be to call TA and see what theyre willing to work out.Since youve "worked" on the engine,id think youd have no legal recourse at all...

I know if I had just paid near $20k for an new engine,I wouldnt have touched a bolt on it besides routine maintenence.Itd be right back to TA as soon as I saw the oil pooling in the VC's.

Youd think theyd put em on a dyno like other engine builder's that get 1/2 the price they do for a complete engine.

I can't say I disagree with your thoughts. I will say,Mike did offer to revise the lifters for me. However-time and money was the deceiding factor for me. I bought it, I still believe in it and I'll get it right for me. Thats why Im asking questions here- There are alot of resources on this board.
I did get ahold of Precision and the Turbo has pretty much been illiminated. I can not find any excessive play in the crank - so, Im thinking the Cam Thrust plate. I also talked to Cottons builder, Bob - RPE Machine in Conn. Very nice guy- he had suggestions for me.
I will start it again this weekend and change the oil immediately and see what I see. I will let you know. Larry

 

[Lee Thompson]

oil ring end gap???

Larry, I assume you spent a few dollars getting this eng. built and shipped. Hopefully they sent a spec. sheet. What do they show as oil ring end gap?
Sorry to say but it sounds like more than just a case of rings not being seated. But then again, I have zero experience with an aluminum block. I have had bad oil rings and a leakdown test still showed good numbers. Best of luck.

 

[Larry]

Larry, I assume you spent a few dollars getting this eng. built and shipped. Hopefully they sent a spec. sheet. What do they show as oil ring end gap?
Sorry to say but it sounds like more than just a case of rings not being seated. But then again, I have zero experience with an aluminum block. I have had bad oil rings and a leakdown test still showed good numbers. Best of luck.

Lee, There are 9 pages of specs- however, under "ring end gap" - it list top at .024 and 2nd at .024. Nothing for the oil ring gap. Skirt clearance .0058 - .0061. Larry

 

[Cheeseburger]

Just a thought, as it was mentioned before........Are you running a stock oil return or an Eastern performance braided turbo oil return?

Reason i ask is i had the Eastern one along time ago and you get too much of a kink in it which restricts the oil flow from the turbo.

My car smoked and when i put a stock return on, problem solved.

Personally i would pull the pan and have a look, if there is bearing material on the bottom of the pan i would then pull a main cap and rod bearing cap and have a look.....

If there is nothing on the pan floor, then i would change the oil and run the motor again, otherwise its a bad idea to start the motor again after you saw material in the filter.

If you plan any legal action, do not remove a main/rod cap......take it too a competant builder and have him right down everything he see's.

Good luck.

 

[John Wilde]

Just a thought, as it was mentioned before........Are you running a stock oil return or an Eastern performance braided turbo oil return?

Reason i ask is i had the Eastern one along time ago and you get too much of a kink in it which restricts the oil flow from the turbo.

My car smoked and when i put a stock return on, problem solved.

Personally i would pull the pan and have a look, if there is bearing material on the bottom of the pan i would then pull a main cap and rod bearing cap and have a look.....

If there is nothing on the pan floor, then i would change the oil and run the motor again, otherwise its a bad idea to start the motor again after you saw material in the filter.

If you plan any legal action, do not remove a main/rod cap......take it too a competant builder and have him right down everything he see's.

Good luck.

I agree with mayor Mc Cheese.
You already have big money into this motor.
Take it to shop and have them go though it.
I would rather spend a grand or 2 then loose a $20,000 Motor.

 

[Larry]

Just a thought, as it was mentioned before........Are you running a stock oil return or an Eastern performance braided turbo oil return?

Reason i ask is i had the Eastern one along time ago and you get too much of a kink in it which restricts the oil flow from the turbo.

My car smoked and when i put a stock return on, problem solved.

Personally i would pull the pan and have a look, if there is bearing material on the bottom of the pan i would then pull a main cap and rod bearing cap and have a look.....

If there is nothing on the pan floor, then i would change the oil and run the motor again, otherwise its a bad idea to start the motor again after you saw material in the filter.

If you plan any legal action, do not remove a main/rod cap......take it too a competant builder and have him right down everything he see's.

Good luck.

Original oil feed and return on the Turbo. Thanks Larry

 

[Lee Thompson]

oil level??

How about the amount of oil in eng? Too much can hinder the oil rings in doing their job of wiping the walls down.

 

[Larry]

How about the amount of oil in eng? Too much can hinder the oil rings in doing their job of wiping the walls down.

I followed your lead and lowered the oil to be flush with the bottom of the front cross member. I entended the p/u tube and then with the pan off the car - I filled the pan with water - set in the modified dip stick ( motor did not come with one )and marked it at the full level just below the stock baffle. It takes like 6 1/2 quarts. Thats a thought - maybe run it alittle less oil.
Im running 6o pounds oil pressure at 55 mph cruise. It idles at 38-40. It has T/A's high volumn pump with adjustable pressure spring. The spring in it is from a big block buick. Maybe I should swap that out with a stock GN spring. At high RPM - I am not sure where the pressure would go - have not had it over 4500 rpm. Larry

 

[EightSecV6]

Larry,
How much oil is laying under the vv covers when it is running? Have you tried to replace the turbo yet for piece of mind?

 

[Larry]

Larry,
How much oil is laying under the vv covers when it is running? Have you tried to replace the turbo yet for piece of mind?

The oil pooling is much better since I worked the drain holes and modified the lifters - maybe 3/8- 1/2" deep. And it moved along well.
I have the Turbo off and it looks dry and normal. I do not have a spare Turbo on hand, but- this Saturday we are having our Western NY Turbo club family outing at my home. I believe I can get one dropped off by one of our members. I was considering running it at idle with the turbo off to see if it still smoked at idle. Then again - I am not real sure if I will start it again before pulling the pan. The next couple days I will be preparing my house and yard for this party. Once this party is over and I clean the place up - I will have Sunday to focus on the car. If your not busy Sat. -come on up, we have a great time. Larry

 

[Lee Thompson]

??????

Larry, what is the stroke and length of the rods? Do you know if the pistons have the support ring or blocker ring or what ever they are called, to support the oil ring?

 

[Larry]

Larry, what is the stroke and length of the rods? Do you know if the pistons have the support ring or blocker ring or what ever they are called, to support the oil ring?

Rods are the 3 5/8 ( 3.625 )- there is no notation about the oil rings. What are you thinking? Larry

 

[Lee Thompson]

maybe!!!

Had this happen to me on my eng. of a long stroke and long rod combo. With the wrist pin up in the oil groove, we have to install a support ring. I bent the one on # 5 cyl. It would not let the oil ring assembly FLOAT in the groove as it had it in a bind. As a result # 5 pumped oil, but compression and leak down test were perfect. I found it on the second teardown. Took it out and managed to save it. The car would smoke slightly. Something to check IF you have to go inside. Best of luck.

 

[Jeff Rand]

Rods are the 3 5/8 ( 3.625 )- there is no notation about the oil rings. What are you thinking? Larry

Larry, I think this is the crank stroke. I believe that the rod length TA uses is 6.3". If this is the case then the oil ring would not have that support.

Jeff

 

[Larry]

Larry, I think this is the crank stroke. I believe that the rod length TA uses is 6.3". If this is the case then the oil ring would not have that support.

Jeff

Jeff- I miss spoke- you are right. I have been distracted getting my home ready for the Club outing here Sat. Its a crowler crank 3.625 stroke and the rods are 3.600. Lee - sorry for tossing the curve.
I had about 20 min today to try alittle flushing. With the oil plug out - I dumped 3-4 quarts of diesel fuel into each valve cover. I check it and there was not a spec of anything in the pan. I felt good about that. Sunday I will have some time to get back at it. Thanks again for all the suggestions and opinions. Larry

 

[GARY HARVEY]

Tattle Tail

The other day, I saw a mesh filter insert at the local parts store.
Watching the idiot box and 2 guys garage and saw the same insert.
Seems someone has come up with a poor mans OBERG.
Now if I could only remember which parts store.

PC

 

[GARY HARVEY]

Jegs has em'

ENGINE CHECK FILTER SCREENs

pc

 

[Larry]

Things are better. I put in the straight 30 wgt, changed the oil pump spring which lowered the pressure - ran it on the street, 93 octane , so - no boost and low RPM ( the C-16 was getting expensive) I put on another 75 miles and checked the oil - all looks fine. The oil in the valve covers has been reduced to a minimum. Oil pressure at idle is 30# and at cruise - 50#. When I get into the peddle alittle -it goes 60. However- it still smokes at idle. I pugged the PVC and varified its not the Turbo. I am running Cottons Front mount, stock A/C and stock radiator. Its been hot and humid here- car is running cool at 170 - 175. Transmission at 150 degrees. I know have 330 miles on it - no leaks anywhere. Last night and tonight - I tried to get the Rpm over 45oo in 1st gear on the street so I can get a few readings on the fast. Even after putting the 28" tall 10" wide MT"S slicks on - when I get into the pedel - the slicks break loose. I tried to bring it up in 2nd gear, but- by the time I am at 4500 or so- I am going way to fast for the street around here. The car does have some impressive power. So- this Sunday our club is renting the local 1/4 mlle track and I am looking forward to getting the RPM up so I can get some numbers to look at. The timing is cautiously set at 18 degrees and the boost controler a 14. I believe its gonna run good - I wish I could get a handle on the oil burning at idle. We'll see- maybe getting some RPM up will settle it out.
As for the Brass colored fillings I found in the oil - I know it was not the Turbo and not the Crank thrust plate. I can only assume it was from the Cam Thrust Plate and it seems to have stopped. Thanks for all your thoughts on this - I thought about all of them and used your advices in many cases. Thanks - I will let you know how it goes Sunday.. Larry

 

[wilkinshc]

Larry,

First, hope everthing works out for you. I also have a TA block and would like to learn from your experiences. I have been following your thread and it makes me a little nervous about TA's service after the sale.

I have a couple of questions, did you have the option of having TA dyno the engine or break it in?

Anything you would have done different (parts, machine work, or service)?

 

[Larry]

Larry,

First, hope everthing works out for you. I also have a TA block and would like to learn from your experiences. I have been following your thread and it makes me a little nervous about TA's service after the sale.

I have a couple of questions, did you have the option of having TA dyno the engine or break it in?

Anything you would have done different (parts, machine work, or service)?

I am only one guy with one race car. I have learned alot through this. I have my opinions and can only tell you what my experiences have been. This Sunday will fill in alot of blank spaces for me - I am excited and optomistic. Feel free to E-mail me BuickGetReal@verizon.net - I can only tell you what I know from my experiences. I will say the people from this board and the Buick community, especially Jack Cotton & his builder - Bob, Dave Wicks, Pat DeMarie,Steve Hughs, Jeff Rand, Nick McCale and Rick at T/A who built the motor - been very helpful. AHH- no- there was no talk about dyno at T/A- not a bad idea though. Larry