converter talk Billet lockup vs NL and non billet LU/NLU

[Dusty Bradford]

Okay unlocked as well to show how much slip there is as well as whether the clutch can hold the power when used.




Show one anyways, I haven't been to Richs event as have many others who weren't there and would like to see what's inside of a 9.5 PTC NL .

I would like for you to point out each piece in a pic and explain to me why each part is chosen and how it's the best one for me.

I'm no converter expert and need you to give me a converter for dummies 101 class with pics and an explanation of why the PTC is the way to go.

I promise you I will buy one if it's the best I can get, no BS and I mean it. I'll even pay you're $200.00 commission fee that you get on each sale with a smile and a sincere thank you.

I'm also not talking 7 or 8 sec. cars here LU converters have no place in a car that fast so let's keep this on track or street/ strip [pun intended] and stop trying to change the parameters.

Opel cores have been done to death in 7/8 sec. cars also and spragless converters aren't ideal for street cars as you already well know.

I will find out eventually as you say, that's the point of me doing this.

Your converter guy has had one apart and can't see anything special and he specializes in converters. Others have tried to copy it and have not succeded. I've restalled some clones of it. So you want me to explain to you why I use what I use. Go ask David Copperfield to tell you how he does what he does, when he reveals his secrets, I'll reveal mine.

The day I make that kind of money on a converter I'll quit my day job.....and start charging for the hours of phone calls I recieve daily to help sort out combo's whether it needs a converter or not. It's not easy to balance work, family and my passion for making people go faster. You'd be suprised how many people I convince into running what they have. The fact you have targeted me is just a compliment. Thanks. If you do decide to buy one I'll be sure to price it accordingly so I get my $200.

Actually we are talking 6,7 and 8 second cars here. Its what my converter has been proven to take over and over and over again. If it takes that abuse the customer can rest easily that his 8,9,10,11,12 second car can throw whatever it wants at it and there's no clutch to slip or sprag to break, ever. This means years of abuse without any maintenence costs. You see I'm a customer myself. When I sell someone a 9.5 non lock I fully expect it to be the last converter they ever need and I don't plan to make money on them yearly for freshen up's. A sprag will break in a performance application...bet on it.

Actually spragless can work in daily driven street cars without monster coolers. Every Turbo V6 needs a good cooling sytem whether lock-up or non lock. When we're taking a trans and cooling system designed to handle 250hp and putting 500-600-700hp to it and driving it on the street, heat will be generated and extra capacity is needed to get rid of the heat. Just like my Duramax has more cooling capacity than a passenger car. I've daily driven with a converter looser than the current 9.5. You just have to know what your doing when you design the converter. Most of the reading material out there on the internet is general info concerning spragless making alot of heat. Small diameter converters like an 8" or 9" really benefit from a sprag. Other converters can benefit as well depending on the pieces used to achieve a stall speed. I went into this with the intention of doing it spragless and NLU so my customer never had to worry about breaking a sprag or stator support tube. Reliability and performance.

 

[TurboDave]

I haven't been following every post in this whole thread because, well, it's just too long and wordy, but......
I have done a good bit of logging on Powerlogger of Converter Slip (CS). I'm not sure how to go about setting up a zero slip base line setting in PLC without a manual lock capability.
Under the adjust button on the plc f3 page you can see that there are settings for 2nd 3rd and 4th gear CS factor. It took a good bit of driving to get these numbers correct and the target is to find a value in each gear that yields a ZERO.ZERO CS% when the converter is locked. Someone gave some starting point numbers that were pretty close, and I tweaked from there.
For example: My second gear CS factor is: 75.5, and my 3rd gear CS factor is: 46.5, and my 4th gear CS factor is: 31.0
These factors all show a 0.0 CS% when the converter is locked in any of those gears.

I'm pretty confident of those numbers because I have a 7 disc vigilante converter, which has no slip when locked..

How accurate would any of these numbers be on another brand converter? I don't know.

How to achieve an accurate CS factor on a non locking converter, I'm not quite sure, but someone probably knows. Maybe Bob Bailey since it's his hardware/software that does all this.

 

[Dusty Bradford]

I haven't been following every post in this whole thread because, well, it's just too long and wordy, but......
I have done a good bit of logging on Powerlogger of Converter Slip (CS). I'm not sure how to go about setting up a zero slip base line setting in PLC without a manual lock capability.
Under the adjust button on the plc f3 page you can see that there are settings for 2nd 3rd and 4th gear CS factor. It took a good bit of driving to get these numbers correct and the target is to find a value in each gear that yields a ZERO.ZERO CS% when the converter is locked. Someone gave some starting point numbers that were pretty close, and I tweaked from there.
For example: My second gear CS factor is: 75.5, and my 3rd gear CS factor is: 46.5, and my 4th gear CS factor is: 31.0
These factors all show a 0.0 CS% when the converter is locked in any of those gears.

I'm pretty confident of those numbers because I have a 7 disc vigilante converter, which has no slip when locked..

How accurate would any of these numbers be on another brand converter? I don't know.

How to achieve an accurate CS factor on a non locking converter, I'm not quite sure, but someone probably knows. Maybe Bob Bailey since it's his hardware/software that does all this.

I'm not sure with the stock ecm either. You would think one factor would be good for all gears unless it has something to do with the ratio difference in each gear. Output speed is output speed.......It's very simple with a FAST system and driveshaft sensor by doing the math of driveshaft rpm vs engine rpm.

 

[TurboDave]

I'm not sure with the stock ecm either. You would think one factor would be good for all gears unless it has something to do with the ratio difference in each gear. Output speed is output speed.......It's very simple with a FAST system and driveshaft sensor by doing the math of driveshaft rpm vs engine rpm.

You'll have to ask Bob Bailey for an explanation of how the Powerlogger software/hardware does the calculation. I just know it works.

 

[robzombie]

You'll have to ask Bob Bailey for an explanation of how the Powerlogger software/hardware does the calculation. I just know it works.

Thank you Dave.

I'll contact him and see if he can point me in the right direction.

 

[20psiofevil]

Any updates or track passes Mr. Zombie?

 

[robzombie]

I haven't put anything up or said anything in awhile because all people want are hard numbers and so do I.

I"m still messing with the power logger and trying to figure out how to set up parameters and figure out how to use it properly. I've recorded a few runs but still haven't figured out how to look at them or down load them to be able to post them. I think someone said right click and press F3 or something but I will put more time into it over the next week.

I also just installed my wideband this week, and damn I think it's the best tuning aid you can have. The W/B is more useful to me than either the S/M or P/L until I figure out the P/L that is.

I'm also running my old converter right now, as I'm going to let someone with a high nine second car try the BLU and see how it does in his car, and he is going to send me logs of it's performance in his car that I will put up for all to see.

I will post figures with my TCI converter right now for comparisons sake so I can compare the differences between the two.

If anyone who reads this post would be willing to help me with P/L and how to use it so I can post results quicker and accurately I would greatly appreciate all the help I can get.

I truly want to do this right and find out how good/bad or indifferent my BLU is compared to what's out there.

RZ

 

[we4Mateo]

http://www.fullthrottletech.com/archive/index.php?f-75.html

 

[robzombie]

Thanks for the link.

Holy crap batman!!! Only 638 things to read, I should be done by Christmas.

Just kidding, I'll start reading what pertains to me and hopefully I'll be on track soon enough.


RZ

 

[87WE4BOOSTED]

Long winded thread. Got my pop corn waiting on some numbers.

Posted from the TurboBuick.Com mobile app

 

[TurboTnZ06]

P/L has a tab control on the left to click to get to the different sections and to load a log. I think P/L gives % slip if your speedo is accurately feeding it data. You can look at a timeslip to see mph at the 1/4 and you can look at your P/L log and see the RPM there, then figure out slip with an online calculator plugging in your rear end, actual tire height at speed and trans ratio.

 

[robzombie]

then figure out slip with an online calculator plugging in your rear end, actual tire height at speed and trans ratio.

Are there reference numbers on here somewhere that can be entered??

There should /could be a sticky that lists what numbers to use if you have 3.42s, 2004r, with 26"tire, 26.5 tire, 28"tire and so on.

The varying factor would be tire size as most still run the2004r trans with 3.42 gears.

All I need are the right numbers to enter in 2,3,4 gear CS factors and I could start logging.

I'm running PLC version 1.4 if that makes a difference.