Coolingmist/Devil's Own h2o/meth

[Grumpy]

anything can happen.... it is racing after all....

hahahahaha!!!! you got that right !!!! Stupidest junk in the world happened's .. Last year Melissa can't hold nothing at the line .. We "thought" we could fix the brakes down there!!! She drives this thing everywhere !!! Sat morning I go out the motel to let the car warm up and the Alt lights on Drove the car to the track with our WIZ BANG Optima battery and changed the alt there... no biggie.. then the damm thing wouldn't start !!!! talk about ripping what little bit of hair I have left out BUT we will be back next year

 

[Pablo]

Well If i had the money to put where my mouth is I certainly would be there.

I'm just a blue collar aircraft mechanic making due with the outrageous cost of living in so cal.

If anyone wants to sponsor me all expenses paid I'll be coming home with that trophy.


For some of you, 'tune' is a four letter word (as in an epithet)

That's kind of sad.

You probably went through a lot of carburetors back in the day looking for "the right one" before ever changing a jet or a pump cam.

 

[Jicaju]

Well If i had the money to put where my mouth is I certainly would be there.

I'm just a blue collar aircraft mechanic making due with the outrageous cost of living in so cal.

If anyone wants to sponsor me all expenses paid I'll be coming home with that trophy.


For some of you, 'tune' is a four letter word (as in an epithet)

That's kind of sad.

You probably went through a lot of carburetors back in the day looking for "the right one" before ever changing a jet or a pump cam.

You have got to be kidding. After all this shiot talking and now your broke and need someone to sponsor you. I hate poor people. Looks like we got a new King.

 

[Mr.Spool]

pablo,i didn't stumble upon anything just experimented with various tunes trying to go faster with both diy and alkycontrol.didn't take me long to go fast on the alkycontrol.i don't claim to be the tune guru but i'm no rookie!fyi it's before 25psi that things matter,as i rarely run 25psi and go near 120mph in the 1/4 with a ta49,on a stock ecm and a narrowband.i would like to see if you could go just as fast with the other kits as stated in your post above,it's very easy to just type opinions.let's get to the tune as you state in your above post,leaving luck aside,to get the most out of a car you need the supporting equipment as well as the knowledge in tuning.this tuning knowledge will be gained in you own experimentation or in the knowledge of other's.either way like i stated in previous posts there is alot to gained when buying a kit developed with the buick in mind.experimentation=wideband and datalogger,that's just for starter's,and knowledge could be one headgasket at a time!unless it's past down from those that help other's.no matter which way one goes it's not as simple as you state=once tuned.

 

[Mr.Spool]

know alot of guy's with fast systems and widebands and still take their high dollar cars to professional tuners.it cost $$$ and dyno time,but saves alot of expensive parts.

 

[Pablo]

You have got to be kidding. After all this shiot talking and now your broke and need someone to sponsor you. I hate poor people. Looks like we got a new King.

What sh!t talking? Please... quote my **** talking.

I am not broke but I also don't spend my money frivolously. That's partly why I am not broke.
The whole subject of racing in the TAI class is nothing more than a red herring. A d!ck measuring contest at its best. An alcohol injection system is but one component in a myriad of other components in a race car. Thats no more illustrative of an alcohol kit's merit than a valvespring being the sole explanation for a car running a given ET.

You want a real comparison, show me some test data from a controlled environment. Something like what Underwriters Laboratory would do if they were concerned with "engine safety". Show me the various failure analysis data.
How about method of operation? Would be nice to know.
I had to simulate boost voltages on a kit to determine exactly how the various tuning knobs actually affected pump output. It would be nice if manufacturers would divulge such important information. How can you tune if you aren't privy to the information on how the kit actually works? A simple data sheet comparison of output curves would sure be nice. Mr. Spool illustrated that this information is in short supply when he failed to understand what I was referring to in reference to 25 psi and his kit.
For example.. do you know what the range is for your turn on setting on your alcohol kit? from what psi to what psi? Obviously the wider the range the more granular it is. What about the output curve or non-curve from other adjustments? Do you know if they work exponentially or do they just change set points? Do you know if a certain kit has an exponential increase or is it just a completely linear set of start and end points? These are the kinds of things that manufacturers oughta provide us with. Real data. If you aren't looking at the real data then you are just doing guess work and getting lucky. Or maybe you have found work arounds. There are plenty of ways to skin a cat.

Anyway, this thread is beating a dead horse now.

 

[Grumpy]

The whole subject of racing in the TAI class is nothing more than a red herring. A d!ck measuring contest at its best. An alcohol injection system is but one component in a myriad of other components in a race car.

.

 

[Dust]

... alky companies should farm out their electronics to the far east RC industry

Some people don't like the idea

Chinese Alky ? - TurboBuicks.com

 

[coolingmist]

What sh!t talking? Please... quote my **** talking.

You want a real comparison, show me some test data from a controlled environment. Something like what Underwriters Laboratory would do if they were concerned with "engine safety". Show me the various failure analysis data.

How about method of operation? Would be nice to know.
I had to simulate boost voltages on a kit to determine exactly how the various tuning knobs actually affected pump output. It would be nice if manufacturers would divulge such important information. How can you tune if you aren't privy to the information on how the kit actually works? A simple data sheet comparison of output curves would sure be nice. Mr. Spool illustrated that this information is in short supply when he failed to understand what I was referring to in reference to 25 psi and his kit.
For example.. do you know what the range is for your turn on setting on your alcohol kit? from what psi to what psi? Obviously the wider the range the more granular it is. What about the output curve or non-curve from other adjustments? Do you know if they work exponentially or do they just change set points? Do you know if a certain kit has an exponential increase or is it just a completely linear set of start and end points? These are the kinds of things that manufacturers oughta provide us with. Real data. If you aren't looking at the real data then you are just doing guess work and getting lucky. Or maybe you have found work arounds. There are plenty of ways to skin a cat.

Anyway, this thread is beating a dead horse now.

Pablo,

I will not promise you that we are perfect, but I will say that we do our best to provide customers with data on how our product works. We have a video section that has more than 25 videos. Here are a few.

This page details our stage 3D. The kit injects based on Air Temp, boost and RPM. Its a precise kit due to the graph set up below. Most kits on the market have a MIN and MAX knob, some have a tune. But you really have no control over how much it sprays other than giving you a linear output based on a single input. For those that want something better and need more control we can do 2 or 3 inputs if the customer does not want a single one.

CLICK FOR VIDEO

This one is our grid using boost and RPM in a 2D mode. Using this grid you can make sure you have exactly what you need as far as flow.

Lets talk about what happens with our kit, when you change min/max/tune. We have a real flow sensor to show you.

Here is the tune knob being changed. You will notice the max flow increasing. We kept the boost steady, but changed the tune to show you at any set boost level the under curve will change.

CLICK FOR VIDEO

Changing the MINIMUM button and keeping boost steady.
This video shows what happens as you change the Min knob higher or lower on our Varicool controller. The difference between the MIN and MAX knob will determine how fast the system injects. On this video the GREEN is minimum knob, RED is MAX. light blue is flow and white is boost. The MIN knob is the PSI you want the system to start injecting, the Max is the PSI you want it to be on full flow.

CLICK FOR VIDEO

This shows you what happens as you change the Max knob higher or lower. On this video the GREEN is minimum knob, RED is MAX. light blue is flow and white is boost. Notice the flow increases/decreases. Where the min/max are set in relation to each other help to determine how fast or slow the system will progress.

CLICK FOR VIDEO


Here is our system responding to boost on a slow spooling vehicle:

This video shows the progressive nature of our Varicool controller. You see in a slow spool how fast it reacts. Notice as boost increases, so does flow. Flow is indicated by the thick blue line, boost is indicated by the white line.

CLICK FOR VIDEO

This video shows the progressive nature of our Varicool controller on a fast spool. Flow is indicated by the thick blue line, boost is indicated by the white line. Boost comes on fast and our controller matches it. VERY fast reaction.

CLICK FOR VIDEO

Now getting to response time with RPM...how fast can our system respond to RPM signal? Here are two vids to show you.

CLICK FOR VIDEO

Here is our Super High Speed Valve using a Frequency Based MAF singal. Notice the flow increase with MAF.

CLICK FOR VIDEO

We do extensive testing on our product. The world of meth injection has advanced beyond simple analog devices, today with the right technology you can run more than one input to insure proper flow at RPM VS BOOST, etc.

David

 

[Grumpy]

I will not promise you that we are perfect
David

David I don't care what alky system or anything out there car related ..NOTHING is perfect ... as the expression goes "**** happeneds" everything is goin to break or wear out at some time :biggrin:

 

[coolingmist]

David I don't care what alky system or anything out there car related ..NOTHING is perfect ... as the expression goes "**** happeneds" everything is goin to break or wear out at some time :biggrin:

I agree. Thats why a system with a failsafe is critical if your vehicle is tuned to rely on meth. Would you not like a system that can either disable your electronic boost controller OR disable your manual boost controller and go back to wastegate presure if the system is NOT injecting or is clogged, but enable them if the system IS injecting? Any hardware failure on the system or running out of water, clog would be caught and keep you from overboosting when you dont have meth running.

David

 

[Mr.Spool]

pablo,do you really want to know how everything works?and is it necessary to accomplish going fast?i understand to curve well enough to skin my cat.nothing made by man is failsafe and i don't believe in a lifetime guarentee as no one can guarentee they will be in business forever.my father has a buick,i set the car up for him,he doesn't understand how anything works,but he can drive and likes going fast.that why he bought the kit,he couldn't care or understand how it works but it does,another cat skinned.

 

[Mr.Spool]

coolingmist,that's nice but what happens when the walboro decides it's done working= your still going to break.one's only option is to replace certain items in a effort to prevent failure.i don't believe anything mechanical is failsafe but i don't discurage other's to try.bottom line is you push things far enough long enough something will fail.

 

[coolingmist]

coolingmist,that's nice but what happens when the walboro decides it's done working= your still going to break.one's only option is to replace certain items in a effort to prevent failure.i don't believe anything mechanical is failsafe but i don't discurage other's to try.bottom line is you push things far enough long enough something will fail.

Im not dis-agreeing, but I am saying you have the opportunity to limit your loss. It makes no sense to put $20,000 into your engine and then not put a $200 failsafe that can save your engine. If you are boosting beyond what your system can handle without the water injection, if you are running the water injection its good to have a failsafe in place. Just my opinion.

Also, the failsafe isn't all mechanical. Our smart injection unit for example is electronic.

David

 

[scot w.]

Pablo,

I will not promise you that we are perfect, but I will say that we do our best to provide customers with data on how our product works. We have a video section that has more than 25 videos. Here are a few.

This page details our stage 3D. The kit injects based on Air Temp, boost and RPM. Its a precise kit due to the graph set up below. Most kits on the market have a MIN and MAX knob, some have a tune. But you really have no control over how much it sprays other than giving you a linear output based on a single input. For those that want something better and need more control we can do 2 or 3 inputs if the customer does not want a single one.

CLICK FOR VIDEO

This one is our grid using boost and RPM in a 2D mode. Using this grid you can make sure you have exactly what you need as far as flow.

Lets talk about what happens with our kit, when you change min/max/tune. We have a real flow sensor to show you.

Here is the tune knob being changed. You will notice the max flow increasing. We kept the boost steady, but changed the tune to show you at any set boost level the under curve will change.

CLICK FOR VIDEO

Changing the MINIMUM button and keeping boost steady.
This video shows what happens as you change the Min knob higher or lower on our Varicool controller. The difference between the MIN and MAX knob will determine how fast the system injects. On this video the GREEN is minimum knob, RED is MAX. light blue is flow and white is boost. The MIN knob is the PSI you want the system to start injecting, the Max is the PSI you want it to be on full flow.

CLICK FOR VIDEO

This shows you what happens as you change the Max knob higher or lower. On this video the GREEN is minimum knob, RED is MAX. light blue is flow and white is boost. Notice the flow increases/decreases. Where the min/max are set in relation to each other help to determine how fast or slow the system will progress.

CLICK FOR VIDEO


Here is our system responding to boost on a slow spooling vehicle:

This video shows the progressive nature of our Varicool controller. You see in a slow spool how fast it reacts. Notice as boost increases, so does flow. Flow is indicated by the thick blue line, boost is indicated by the white line.

CLICK FOR VIDEO

This video shows the progressive nature of our Varicool controller on a fast spool. Flow is indicated by the thick blue line, boost is indicated by the white line. Boost comes on fast and our controller matches it. VERY fast reaction.

CLICK FOR VIDEO

Now getting to response time with RPM...how fast can our system respond to RPM signal? Here are two vids to show you.

CLICK FOR VIDEO

Here is our Super High Speed Valve using a Frequency Based MAF singal. Notice the flow increase with MAF.

CLICK FOR VIDEO

We do extensive testing on our product. The world of meth injection has advanced beyond simple analog devices, today with the right technology you can run more than one input to insure proper flow at RPM VS BOOST, etc.

David

8 video's of extensive testing and none of a customers car putting upp some nice fast times? All those videos mean nothing to me!

This is done with a Alkycontrol kit.. Called , REAL RESULTS!!!!!!!!!!!!

THIS MEANS MORE!! :biggrin: Richie HIPSI 9.59 @ 140 at Need2Speed's Dead Hookers event at Bradenton Motorsports Park. TSM Buick

 

[Razor]

I always wondered why the word "Fail Safe" only applies to water/alcohol injection kits. As there is no other part of your race car that has a failsafe.

Here's the analogy.. You go to a restaurant.. sit down.. look at the menu.. and there on the menu is Rolaids and Pepto.. waiter says.."you take the Rolaids and Pepto so you dont experience discomfort with the food being served". And you ask.. Why not use better ingredients and preparation so the Rolaids/Pepto isnt needed? :redface: Well sir.. you can never be too safe..

Better electronics, better assembly procedures, better electrical connectors, better wiring and wiring practices, better layout, better better leads to a better system. Its easy.

Aeromotive, Barry Grant, Weldon, SX, Walbro, etc dont offer fail safes for their fuel pumps.. I wonder why?

You want to be sure.. use a wide band and monitor it.. or get one that sets an alarm when the air fuel changes past the preset limits. Easy. Sounds like 200 is better employed in something that covers everything.. this is from a "Racers" standpoint :wink:

Generic kits take trial and error to setup. Vehicle specific kits if designed correctly, eliminate 90% of that making them plug and play. The testing was done on a mule already. This mule was needed to sort all the issues out that a generic kit cannot. And then many different varieties of the same mule.. until all the tuning bugs are worked out. This is why changes are not made to wiz bang the system.. becuase of the hours already employed in "dialing" it in. And then guinea pigging the wiz bang.

Rite Grumpy?

 

[Steve]

8 video's of extensive testing and none of a customers car putting upp some nice fast times? All those videos mean nothing to me!

This is done with a Alkycontrol kit.. Called , REAL RESULTS!!!!!!!!!!!!

THIS MEANS MORE!! :biggrin: Richie HIPSI 9.59 @ 140 at Need2Speed's Dead Hookers event at Bradenton Motorsports Park. TSM Buick

You guys just need to give this up. There are other ways of going fast than just the way you like. I can produce a video of a car going faster on race gas, e85, straight meth, and straight ethanol which means absolutely nothing. Let people buy what they want to buy and go fast the way they want to. I personally like turbo Buicks and I don't really understand why some people choose to try to go fast with a FWD 4 banger Honda but if that is what they like then more power to them. There are no definative answers on subjects like this--its all personal opnion so just let everyone have thier own!

 

[Razor]

You guys just need to give this up. There are other ways of going fast than just the way you like. I can produce a video of a car going faster on race gas, e85, straight meth, and straight ethanol which means absolutely nothing. Let people buy what they want to buy and go fast the way they want to. I personally like turbo Buicks and I don't really understand why some people choose to try to go fast with a FWD 4 banger Honda but if that is what they like then more power to them. They are no definative answers on subjects like this--its all personal opnion so just let everyone have thier own!

Show me a video of a 109 Buick trapping 135+ on pump gas. Since this is a Buick board.. and the subject is Buicks not Volvo's or Suburu's. This is the information that leads to faster Buicks.. the recipe as it is called.. Then show me changes to the recipe and the car goes 140+.. stay on topic and vehicle specific. If you have this data.. then we're all ears.

 

[Steve]

Show me a video of a 109 Buick trapping 135+ on pump gas. Since this is a Buick board.. and the subject is Buicks not Volvo's or Suburu's. This is the information that leads to faster Buicks.. the recipe as it is called.. Then show me changes to the recipe and the car goes 140+.. stay on topic and vehicle specific. If you have this data.. then we're all ears.

Did you actually read the post--it says nothing about pump gas. My point is that coming up with a vid isn't going to change anyone's mind. If someone goes 150 with pump gas/alky and a different kit I don't think everyone is going to switch over so what's the point? Everyone's combo is different and everyone's goal are different--let everyone have thier own opinion and spend thier money where they want too.

 

[Grumpy]

welll snowing again here ok the winter bench racing association said Melissa "should" go 151 kilometersanyway !!!!
OK lets end this thread with this.. ALKY CONTROL SUCKS !!! ok ??? everyone happy now ??? So we can also count on all you guys racing at BG right ???? I am really curious with all the new technology coming about in this thread !!! Can't wait to see all the "new" alky systems racing all in one place!! BG is goin to rock this year !!! PLUS there is good $$$$ being paid out :biggrin: