Cracked "New" Champion heads
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J
JCotton
Guest
I've spoken with Tom about building the heads with different guides for different applications. So if your preference is whatever works for you, he should be able to accomodate you. Since very few have any complaints about guides, I just had my R heads freshened by my engine builder after, lets just say a whole bunch of passes, don't want to offend anyone with a number, guides were fine but he replaced all my exhaust valves, just because thats the way he does it. In other words, what works for most, if it doesn't fo all, you'll have the option.
hope that helps,
hope that helps,
TurboDiverArt
The Guru Thorn
- Joined
- Nov 8, 2002
- Messages
- 1,655
That's awesome Jack! I can't wait to see it run. There's no doubt in my mind that with the new motor and turbo it's going 8's if you want it, no doubt!
TurboDiverArt
The Guru Thorn
- Joined
- Nov 8, 2002
- Messages
- 1,655
Re: Wheelie bars
Chicks dig using the rear bumper as wheelie bars.Originally posted by 1FASTV6
Jack,
Time for for wheelie bars instead of using your rear bumpers.
Artie
JC FRONT MOUNT COOLER
JC. front mount big innercooler looks good and does a good job , looks good in my car. and you dont have to wait 6 months to get one. thanks jack , a lot of people missed you at the nats, i only missed your cigars and your female help. hope you make it to morroco in sept. oc,
JC. front mount big innercooler looks good and does a good job , looks good in my car. and you dont have to wait 6 months to get one. thanks jack , a lot of people missed you at the nats, i only missed your cigars and your female help. hope you make it to morroco in sept. oc,
Brutal Six
New Member
- Joined
- May 31, 2001
- Messages
- 18
Worth a thousand words
Fellas,
It's been said that a picture is worth a thousand words. Here's a picture of one of my heads. I'm not honestly sure which one since they both cracked in the same place.
http://hometown.aol.com/brutalsix/myhomepage/index.html
Enjoy
Neal
Fellas,
It's been said that a picture is worth a thousand words. Here's a picture of one of my heads. I'm not honestly sure which one since they both cracked in the same place.
http://hometown.aol.com/brutalsix/myhomepage/index.html
Enjoy
Neal
FROM NEAL"S HOME PAGE
Brutal 6 Home Page
Champion Cylinder Head
This is a picture of my third generation Champion Cylinder Head from my Low 10 Second Stage II Street Car.
Upon investegation material thickness in the logo area was found to be .150".
Head was later weld repaired, cross your fingers.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Neal, thanks for the link to the pic above.
These heads cracking in the same areas, on both sides, on a low-10 second car, is pretty serious. Both heads/same areas = design flaws or manufacturing anomaly, to lots of folks.
Many people may have been pre-supposing:"What does he expect on a Stage motor running low-9s...of course things break!" These heads running low-10s certainly weren't under any undue stress or operating beyond design expectations.
Thanks for sharing this very unfortunate episode with us.
I hope you find a brand new set of heads are on their way
to you from Florida at this very moment, or a refund.
Brutal 6 Home Page
Champion Cylinder Head
This is a picture of my third generation Champion Cylinder Head from my Low 10 Second Stage II Street Car.
Upon investegation material thickness in the logo area was found to be .150".
Head was later weld repaired, cross your fingers.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Neal, thanks for the link to the pic above.
These heads cracking in the same areas, on both sides, on a low-10 second car, is pretty serious. Both heads/same areas = design flaws or manufacturing anomaly, to lots of folks.
Many people may have been pre-supposing:"What does he expect on a Stage motor running low-9s...of course things break!" These heads running low-10s certainly weren't under any undue stress or operating beyond design expectations.
Thanks for sharing this very unfortunate episode with us.
I hope you find a brand new set of heads are on their way
to you from Florida at this very moment, or a refund.
Wow! Where to begin?
I found a cracked cylinder head on Tuesday while making some easy passes. I am 90% sure the head was hurt before I arrived at BG. The last couple of weeks before BG, I had noticed much higher coolant temps driving on the street (10-12 miles to work and the temp would be nearly 200). I pulled the head off Wednesday and overnighted it to Champion. They overnighted me back another cylinder head on Friday, so I could qualify. During my first qualifying pass, I idled the car for several minutes in the staging lanes before pulling up to the line. Once I pulled up to the line, I staged before the other guy and brought the boost up. He took much longer than I expected and I brought the rpm's back down, but by then the temp was nearly 200*. like an idiot, I went ahead and made an easy pass (9.07), running through the traps at over 230*. By the time I got back to the pits it was pegging the temp guage. I cooled the car off and checked everything and couldn't find anything wrong. The next round of qualifying, I turned the boost up (34psi) and that is when the other head let go. I can't say wether it got cracked the pass before from all the heat, since it wasn't leaking any coolant, but it couldn't have helped.
I have worked with Champion since my car ran 11's and they have ALWAYS helped me. In fact, they are very concerned with what happened to my head and have CALLED ME EVERY DAY since I got back to discuss things. The heads that were on there were somewhat experimental, and had some new things we were trying. Champion is continuosly trying to make improvements and revisions to the heads. Most of the improvements involve increasing durabilty and won't effect 90% of the people using them. When you push a performance part beyond what it was designed to be used for, things break. Once you find the weak link, you fix it and find the next. I would be willing to bet, when the T/A heads come out I can find the weak link in those, too
Sorry for the long winded reply, just wanted everyone to know the facts.
I found a cracked cylinder head on Tuesday while making some easy passes. I am 90% sure the head was hurt before I arrived at BG. The last couple of weeks before BG, I had noticed much higher coolant temps driving on the street (10-12 miles to work and the temp would be nearly 200). I pulled the head off Wednesday and overnighted it to Champion. They overnighted me back another cylinder head on Friday, so I could qualify. During my first qualifying pass, I idled the car for several minutes in the staging lanes before pulling up to the line. Once I pulled up to the line, I staged before the other guy and brought the boost up. He took much longer than I expected and I brought the rpm's back down, but by then the temp was nearly 200*. like an idiot, I went ahead and made an easy pass (9.07), running through the traps at over 230*. By the time I got back to the pits it was pegging the temp guage. I cooled the car off and checked everything and couldn't find anything wrong. The next round of qualifying, I turned the boost up (34psi) and that is when the other head let go. I can't say wether it got cracked the pass before from all the heat, since it wasn't leaking any coolant, but it couldn't have helped.
I have worked with Champion since my car ran 11's and they have ALWAYS helped me. In fact, they are very concerned with what happened to my head and have CALLED ME EVERY DAY since I got back to discuss things. The heads that were on there were somewhat experimental, and had some new things we were trying. Champion is continuosly trying to make improvements and revisions to the heads. Most of the improvements involve increasing durabilty and won't effect 90% of the people using them. When you push a performance part beyond what it was designed to be used for, things break. Once you find the weak link, you fix it and find the next. I would be willing to bet, when the T/A heads come out I can find the weak link in those, too
Sorry for the long winded reply, just wanted everyone to know the facts.
750H.P.V6
Brutal 6 Racing
- Joined
- Sep 4, 2001
- Messages
- 3,617
Thanks Cal.
Info from the source is always better than second hand info. Glad to hear that neither you or the car suffered any damage. Based on the pics I saw it looks like things could have gotten really ugly. Sounds like some really good driving and a bit of luck saved you from a serious accident.
Thanks again for the input.
Neal
Info from the source is always better than second hand info. Glad to hear that neither you or the car suffered any damage. Based on the pics I saw it looks like things could have gotten really ugly. Sounds like some really good driving and a bit of luck saved you from a serious accident.
Thanks again for the input.
Neal
750H.P.V6
Brutal 6 Racing
- Joined
- Sep 4, 2001
- Messages
- 3,617
Good News
Guys,
I wanted to give a follow up to my cylinder head situation and give a thumbs up to the guys down at Champion too. My replacement heads showed up yesterday just days before the West Coast Nationals in Las Vegas NV. I guess I'll have to get off my butt and put this thing back together now.
It's my understanding that these are the 1st set of new castings and I have to say I'm impressed with what I see. The logo is now located on the end of the head and there is additional material on the side also. There is some extra material added around the end bolt holes under the valve cover too. Several minor cooling improvements have been made and now the heads come with steam holes for 4.1 applications.
Tom and Bill have been very helpful and I appreciate all their efforts both in further refining the heads and in the support they have given me. Bill actually went out of his way to port the new heads so they would flow better than my previous set. Tom made sure to get the heads here in time for the Vegas event so I will be able to participate rather then spectate. I'm sure it will be a good time.
Thanks to all who helped out.
Neal
Guys,
I wanted to give a follow up to my cylinder head situation and give a thumbs up to the guys down at Champion too. My replacement heads showed up yesterday just days before the West Coast Nationals in Las Vegas NV. I guess I'll have to get off my butt and put this thing back together now.
It's my understanding that these are the 1st set of new castings and I have to say I'm impressed with what I see. The logo is now located on the end of the head and there is additional material on the side also. There is some extra material added around the end bolt holes under the valve cover too. Several minor cooling improvements have been made and now the heads come with steam holes for 4.1 applications.
Tom and Bill have been very helpful and I appreciate all their efforts both in further refining the heads and in the support they have given me. Bill actually went out of his way to port the new heads so they would flow better than my previous set. Tom made sure to get the heads here in time for the Vegas event so I will be able to participate rather then spectate. I'm sure it will be a good time.
Thanks to all who helped out.
Neal
Neil,
I was at Champion last week with Cal . At that time Tom was assembling your heads(I saw the work order on the work bench). I gotta say he had all kinds of fancy tools out and was setting the heads up himself.Very clean and orderly
I was at Champion last week with Cal . At that time Tom was assembling your heads(I saw the work order on the work bench). I gotta say he had all kinds of fancy tools out and was setting the heads up himself.Very clean and orderly
That is way cool
This is how a smart company can use this form to better there products. My hat goes off to Tom and Bill for taking care of the problem in short order
Standing behind the the product and not challenging the knolege of the customer and instantly pointing the finger is refreshing... We do have some pretty savy Turbo Buick guys on this board that can relay good and bad feedback to a company thats values it and uses it
Every revision they do on these heads
will only make them better for everybody
Way to go Tom and Bill
This is how a smart company can use this form to better there products. My hat goes off to Tom and Bill for taking care of the problem in short order
Standing behind the the product and not challenging the knolege of the customer and instantly pointing the finger is refreshing... We do have some pretty savy Turbo Buick guys on this board that can relay good and bad feedback to a company thats values it and uses it Every revision they do on these headswill only make them better for everybody
Way to go Tom and Bill
750H.P.V6
Brutal 6 Racing
- Joined
- Sep 4, 2001
- Messages
- 3,617
Turbosam6,
You are correct. The logo is now on both ends of the head rather than in its previous location on the side. The logo is also much smaller but I think this is only because there is less area to machine it on.
Neal
You are correct. The logo is now on both ends of the head rather than in its previous location on the side. The logo is also much smaller but I think this is only because there is less area to machine it on.
Neal
A
AsphaltAnihil8r
Guest
I have voved NEVER to buy Chcampion heads for 2 reasons ....
#1 So can everyone expect to get this service,have they worked out the problems with people having to wait for months ,,heck have heard some have been waiting for a year for the heads to come back for just a repair......I can see all the flames coming from the guys that have had engines on a stand for a year,,I feel for them
#2 Was the cracking due to the logo??
I have NEVER had to wait that long for a repair on mine or my customers heads. In fact, I dropped off a Stage2 head that belonged to Dave Fiscus last week and was told it was finished today. This was an extensive repair (welding, valves, etc..) and it was completed quickly. Too bad, I can't build Dave's engine as fast as Champion got me the head
Obviously, Champion is continually trying to improve their product as can be seen by the latest head design. By monitoring where people like me (who push things a little too hard) are having problems, they are able to make upgrades. Neil mentioned to them that his head was only .150 thick where it cracked and Champion made the new head nearly .100 thicker in that area and move the logo.
I also know they are working much harder on taking care of their customers. Two ways they are doing this, is by keeping more inventory on the shelf and quicker turn around in the shop.
On another note, I want to let everyone know that I probably have solved my current cracking problems. The culpret was NOT the heads but, I am embarassed to say, my cooling system. I haven't been able to turn the boost up to my normal stratospheric level since Reynolds (last year). I can't wait to see how it runs at the World Street Finals in two weeks.
Obviously, Champion is continually trying to improve their product as can be seen by the latest head design. By monitoring where people like me (who push things a little too hard) are having problems, they are able to make upgrades. Neil mentioned to them that his head was only .150 thick where it cracked and Champion made the new head nearly .100 thicker in that area and move the logo.
I also know they are working much harder on taking care of their customers. Two ways they are doing this, is by keeping more inventory on the shelf and quicker turn around in the shop.
On another note, I want to let everyone know that I probably have solved my current cracking problems. The culpret was NOT the heads but, I am embarassed to say, my cooling system. I haven't been able to turn the boost up to my normal stratospheric level since Reynolds (last year). I can't wait to see how it runs at the World Street Finals in two weeks.
