crossover pipe observations (ATR info too)...

[J Banning]

I've just spent about 6 hours doing crossover pipe work/replacement and thought I'd post my observations so that other people don't have to go through the same torture as I...

- The stock crossover pipe will NOT fit if you are using stock headers AND header gaskets (Felpro 1400). The gaskets space the headers out to far from the head.

- The ATR crossover pipe (86-87 Buick) is meant to be run with header gaskets (confirmed on phone 5/10/02).

- If your ATR crossover has a wicked exhaust leak (probably will), ATR has these thin, circular exhaust gaskets. They recommend that you use two per side. The gaskets are cheap (about $10 a set), but next day air ain't ($27).

- These gaskets SUCK! They aren't shaped to fit in/on the crossover (ie: not like the stock turbo exhaust donut). Unless you use tape or something, you have to magically balance them on the crossover pipe as you lift it and bolt it in place. Then, you hope & pray that they didn't shift out of place (they probably will).

- After a heat cycle, these gaskets will compress slightly and require you to jack the car up again and re-tighten the crossover bolts. That's always fun, right?

- After this, the gaskets will probably blow out. Within 20 minutes of hard driving (trying to dial in car) I blew out BOTH gaskets on BOTH sides of the crossover. WTF?!?!??!?!?!

- End result - I've taken the ATR crossover off and will put the stocker back on. But first I've got to unbolt the headers and remove the header gaskets, then bolt the headers back up.

AGGGHHHHHHH!!!!!!

-Banning.

 

[Jimn8or]

Other than the rear sway bar....sounds like ATR stuff alright. Headers= Poston's or if you win the Lottery=Houston, w/ crossover. Aint these things fun sometimes...
Jim

 

[terryk]

I fought the same thing. Over tightened? Under tightened? Cracks? Welded? Found more cracks? Welded them? Tension on the PS header between the head and turbo causes more cracks?

Yep.

Who's got a set of stock headers and crossover....

 

[Steve Wood]

I have had the same luck with a couple of the sway bars, too.

I always use a thin coat of hi temp silicone on the flange face and bolt the headers down. I let them set over night before cranking the engine up so the silicone will cure well.

 

[terryk]

I just don't think all of this should be necessary. I need to stop complaining. Sorry.

 

[TURBOV6]

I got the ATR crossover and have no leaks. I heard of the leak problems and put some cooper coat around the flange.

 

[TurboDave]

My experiences were a little different, maybe because I took a different tack.

My original crossover blew almost completely in half near one of the flanges (old age, very thin, and already welded once). So I went to ATR for a replacement crossover. What I got was a nice stainless two piece pipe. I also got those funky, totally useless gaskets that -Banning refered to
And knowing slip joints as I do, I knew that once the pipe was in place and heat cycled a few times, I was going to have the slip joint welded shut! BTW welding the slip joint shut can be done on the car because the pipe hangs down lower than the stock unit.

I'm glad it was a two piece unit though, which allows for variances, etc. I use NO header gaskets, and don't believe they're ever necessary, unless you have cheap faulty headers or a warped head. In either case, correct the problem, header gaskets should not be required if all is as it should be.

I've had the headers and crossover on and off several (dozen) times over the last 16 years (geez time flies), and hears what I do to stop any "potential" leaks.
BTW, my ATR crossover has never leaked.

When putting the headers back on, a nice bead of silicon Ultra Copper works well around each tube opening.

Also, on the crossover, on each flange, it gets a generous bead of Ultra Copper and allowed to cure before anything over an idle is attempted. You wouldn't believe the backpressure that the crossover and headers experience when under load!!!! The turbo creates huge backpressure!

I also use Ultra Copper at the header to turbo mating surface, never saw that joint leake either. The only folks that seem to suffer leaks in that joint are those that have at one time or another used a gasket in that joint. Those nasty thick copper jackets that some like to use, will compress in the bolt hole area and warp the header and turbo mating surfaces (both). Thus a clean gasketless seal can never again be had, unless you surface both faces.

Just some thoughts.

 

[XXQUICK6XX]

ATR cross over

Mine was a basic plug and play I have Fel-Pro 1400 manifold gaskets anddidn't use their flange gaskets. Just left loose until i found the best contact on the manifolds then tightened down and started on jack stands and checked for leaks. No problems here or no complaints either.

Steve

 

[J Banning]

Well, it looks like I got the bad one in the bunch then. Thanks for the replies, there were some good tips there for header sealing. I put the ultra copper on the stock crossover and let it sit overnight before torquing it down. Seems ok now.

-Banning.

 

[JRSGN]

Welp,
With the stock headers I had nothing but leaks with the ATR crossover. I Also tried 10 different ways of putting it on. It sounded like that garbage truck that picks up the garbage @6.00 am. so i took it of & put the stocker back on. Now i got the ATR headers with the 2 piece crossover.
Bannig "I" feel your pain...I messed with that pipe for 3 hrs on a sat afternoon..Them BASTARDS.......Jim

 

[Steve Wood]

One of the problems that arises with any combination is that a new pipe or flange is nice and round and the old one is deformed a bit. Deformed does not always match up with round or vice versa.