Distributor re-recurve without EGR

[MNcarbturbo]

My EGR diaphram was shot and after hearing that most rebuilt ones go bad, and my cheepness, and lack of emmisions testing I just built a set of block off plates.

Do I need to worry about distributor recurve so I dont get pinging? I run E20 and its about 91 octane (from what I hear) and have a MSD BTM.

Would I gain anything performance wise or put a small supression to knock?

Read all about how you will "blow up for stock EGR removed NA engine" and of course that wont happen, is it worth worrying about at all with a turbo motor?

 

[charlief1]

Not really if you keep the timing reasonable. Just make sure you anve an audible knock dectector so you know if you have an issue.

 

[MNcarbturbo]

How do I set up an audible knock sensor without a computer? Will a a 87 GN knock sensor and a casper 10 LED guage hook together without a computer? I have the 80 sensor but theres nothing for it.

 

[charlief1]

MSD makes one. You can get it at Full throttle, Jegs, and Summit.

 

[b4black]

How do I set up an audible knock sensor without a computer? Will a a 87 GN knock sensor and a casper 10 LED guage hook together without a computer? I have the 80 sensor but theres nothing for it.

Yes, a 83/87 knock sensor and ESC module will work with Casper's gauge and no ECM.

Why run E20? It's octane is dependent on the base gasoline, which is likely 84 (84 + E10 = 87). The E20 is probably 89 or 90. Buy Premium 91. I'd get the non-oxy 91.

Also, E20 will run leaner than E10. Try richen you mixture at the carb. That would be a better way to tune out the knock than timing. Without EGR, it may knock while crusing down the highway (lower rpm). Wide open throttle won't change since the EGR valve wasn't used then anyway.

 

[mat231v6]

Also, E20 will run leaner than E10. Try richen you mixture at the carb. That would be a better way to tune out the knock than timing. Without EGR, it may knock while crusing down the highway (lower rpm). Wide open throttle won't change since the EGR valve wasn't used then anyway.

where do you get the metering rods and jets at?

 

[MNcarbturbo]

We dont get E20 or E30 here. They have a blender pump. Just pumps X parts 87 (with 5% ethanol added) and Y parts E85. I dont know if it ends up as E20 or E20+mandated E5=E25.

My hypothetical thought here is- If E20 burns lean it gets detonation, but E20 burns cooler than 91, so would it cancel it out with the cooler temps at the low percentage?

Stuff to think about.

I hate the gas stations around here when it comes to 91. Its usually 40 more cents per gallon. I remember last year it was 10 cents more.

 

[WarWagon]

MNcarbturbo Come one over It's a little bit warmer here than Mn, but WE don't have 10,000 lakes, probably more like 10,000 mountain ridges. What we also have is Fuel lots of fuel Good fuel too. 93 supreme everywhere most with 10%ethanol and some without it. E85 is limited to one pump in the bigger city's. and it's right inthe middle of everything you can get to anywhere from here center of the universe, lol
Want the hottest EGT possible without any detonation from any fuel to make the most power.

 

[b4black]

We dont get E20 or E30 here. They have a blender pump. Just pumps X parts 87 (with 5% ethanol added) and Y parts E85. I dont know if it ends up as E20 or E20+mandated E5=E25.

My hypothetical thought here is- If E20 burns lean it gets detonation, but E20 burns cooler than 91, so would it cancel it out with the cooler temps at the low percentage?

Stuff to think about.

I hate the gas stations around here when it comes to 91. Its usually 40 more cents per gallon. I remember last year it was 10 cents more.

Your 87 is E10. MN State mandates 10% ethanol. E20 would not be 91 octane and is only legal for sales in Flex Fuel Vehicles.

The penalty from running lean would far outweigh any cooling effect from 20% ethanol.

When looking at fuel prices, keep in mind that you loose 3% mpg for every 10% ethanol.


If you what a cooling effect from ethanol, use alcohol injection that is on only when you it (max boost).

 

[charlief1]

Yes, a 83/87 knock sensor and ESC module will work with Casper's gauge and no ECM.

Why run E20? It's octane is dependent on the base gasoline, which is likely 84 (84 + E10 = 87). The E20 is probably 89 or 90. Buy Premium 91. I'd get the non-oxy 91.

Also, E20 will run leaner than E10. Try richen you mixture at the carb. That would be a better way to tune out the knock than timing. Without EGR, it may knock while crusing down the highway (lower rpm). Wide open throttle won't change since the EGR valve wasn't used then anyway.

Thanks for the info Rich. I see you've been doing a little reading lately. Always glad to see you on here.

Your 87 is E10. MN State mandates 10% ethanol. E20 would not be 91 octane and is only legal for sales in Flex Fuel Vehicles.

The penalty from running lean would far outweigh any cooling effect from 20% ethanol.

When looking at fuel prices, keep in mind that you loose 3% mpg for every 10% ethanol.

If you what a cooling effect from ethanol, use alcohol injection that is on only when you it (max boost).

I have to agree with you Rich. It's better to run a little rich instead of lean. Loosing an engine is costly and agrivating to say the least.

 

[MNcarbturbo]

So my new decision is to get or build a knock sensor before I start turning up the boost. Of couse its a ways away, but what do I all need besides a 83-87 knock sensor, and a caspers Knock guage? I dont have a computer to work with. I just want to be able to see where my knock is at before I start messing with more than 8 PSI.

 

[MNcarbturbo]

Yeah thats kinda wierd with the whole E20 or E10 thing. I forgot to put E10. Its E5 in North Dakota. Ive never been picked up for putting E20 in. Yet!


My next step is to find out where my whole A/F ratio is. I notice zero difference between milage of 91 and E20 or where I get detonation. I got audible pinging at 3 PSI when I accendentally put 87 in once. Didnt get on the boost for a while, burned it off and put in some E20. Burned enough so that its real E20. I would get to 5 PSI with no audible det. Before I got my carb fixed for 8 PSI. Of course there could be det. that im not hearing, but how do I know. Now I have my BTM and its set at 1.5 degree per pound retard.

Its an experiment. It goes back to having a pre computer model, not having access to a ESC box, not having any A/F guages EGT probes, or knock guages. Cant set a baseline.

 

[b4black]

So my new decision is to get or build a knock sensor before I start turning up the boost. Of couse its a ways away, but what do I all need besides a 83-87 knock sensor, and a caspers Knock guage? I dont have a computer to work with. I just want to be able to see where my knock is at before I start messing with more than 8 PSI.

You will need the ESC module I mentioned. I don't know if has to be the 83/87 turbo V6 unit or not. I bet you could use a module from a 3.8 non turbo (which would be dirt cheap at the junkyard along with the knock sensor). The people at Casper's can tell you what you need.

 

[MNcarbturbo]

Thanks! Now the hard part is finding the parts!