Dmn cam.

[Jerryl]

wanna fix your cam problems? Install a roller and never flatten a cam again. they dont call them flat tappet cam for nothing.

True .........
IMHO, there is a 50/50 chance your cam will NOT flatten. You are still rolling the dice though ... it is ALL about the budget ... meticulous assembly, break-in and lube. :biggrin: I'll roll the dice and come back and say ***** I should have listened.

 

[m233roller]

Guys, your missing the point here. Yes assembly,oil, eos, and break in lube are very critical BUT !! I'll be willing to bet that to much spring pressure has wiped more cams then any other cause. I have wiped a Reed cam, a Comp cam and Lunati. All where done with all the best, still lost them. Then I got smart and broke them in with stock old GM springs. I am lucky enough to have a Expert auto machinist up here and it was he that said your chances of these pointy fast ramped cams living with 300 ish. open pressure is not GOOD!!! I have since built 5 motors for guys around here and have not lost another cam when breaking it in on soft srings. In fact I even checked them and they were around 60-70 closed and 180-190 open. OH!! I personally went to a billet roller, got sick of the flat tappet cam ****.

 

[Blown&Injected]

If it were JUST the springs then the failures would be all over the place but they keep hitting the #3e.

That said if I were to use a flat tappet again, I would leave the old weak spring on the #3e

 

[johnb1686]

has anybody wiped a roller cam on #3? I have had problems with the flat tapped cams in the past. My motor has went through a couple. I am sure that it is not long before it needs another. Next time I will buy a roller if the budget permits. Don't what to spend that kind of money if I could end up with the same result.

 

[SNKSKNR]

cam

The only roller that I have ever seen wipe out was a cast grind modern muscle cam. For how much more a roller is, it is worth it. How many of you have broken in a flat tappet cam and then your turbo went out later from the break in material. Even after several oil changes. There is alot more insurance with a roller IMOP. When I break in a flat tapped cam I use the stock single valve springs, depending on how big the cam is. I have a comp flat tapped Conley performance 221 221 in one of my motors for the last four years with no problems. The best thing to have is adjustable push rods to get exact prelode. GOOD LUCK

 

[corsair231]

IT IS.......AS I FEARED. :frown:

 

[turbo2nr]

ehahahahahaha...wipeout! (The Beach Boys)

 

[Jerryl]

Paging Bryan Weber

Bryan Weber,

First off, thank you for your support and interest in this community.
I am NOT stating your cams have failed. Matter of fact, Weber cams are the only ones I recall not being listed under "names of camshaft shame" manufacturers. IMHO, even a 10% cam failure rate is too much and it is realized your quality insurance would never allow that in your operation.

We would ALL go roller if it was in the budget (Trust me). Since that is not the reality or majority rule on this board (if it was we would all have roller set-ups), it looks like the sales volume and market will be higher in the flat tappet set-up arena.

Without giving any trade secrets away to the competition, can you assist in answering the issues at hand in addition to specific actions (if anything) you have taken to ensure your flat tappet cams do not wipe at the rate we are seeing?

 

[VadersV6]

Anyone who is running 300-350 lbs open pressure on one of these cams is out of their mind. I thought I was seeing things when I read that. Of course its going to wipe lobes! A cam pushing .450 at the valve and a 6000rpm shift point doesnt need more than 90-100 on the seat and 230-250 open. Isky makes a dual spring setup that has these kinds of numbers. Its got plenty on the seat, but the spring rate isnt higher than it needs to be.

 

[TURBOELKY]

Isky

I agree with vadersv6, I put a hydrollic cam, custom made from isky, since Rod is very knowledgable, plus a good buddy of my buddys, and since then, it's been fine. The cam went in along with the isky springs, locks and retainers. The reason for me tearing my engine apart, tearing my we-4 apart, and selling that and putting the drive train in my el camino was because the #3 lifter! I thought it was a rod knock, but one that never got worst, but turn'd out to be a broken lifter plunger! a lifter cost me my we-4 if you call isky, ask for Rod, and tell him what you want, he'll probably make you a cam like mine, unless you want to go more radical, which is not necessary. Not to bash other cam makers, but out of all the small blocks i've built, seent my older mechanic buddys build, every one had a isky set up in it, LIVE BY ISKY>DIE BY ISKY< none ever had a problem, I occasionally hear valve chatter, but have since come to live with it P.S
ISKY ROCKS!!!!!!!

 

[Jerryl]

........ A cam pushing .450 at the valve and a 6000rpm shift point doesnt need more than 90-100 on the seat and 230-250 open.

Just verified this with Comp Cams
Comp valve spring set PN = 980-12
Closed pressure = 91 lbs
Pressure @.450 lift = 229 lbs

Anyone wipe a cam with these?

 

[VadersV6]

Yeah, at JMS, we used to use Isky cams exclusively (because they never failed), with the exception of the top end race motors for top sportsman/winston west/nascar...where we used custom crane grinds. But for 95% of your typical old school engines out there like the turbo buick, Isky does make really good valvetrain products. For the late model roller stuff, comp is pretty good. The latest rollers from comp for late model 4V fords work wonders....58hp gain on an independant dyno on a stock 4V cobra motor...with the exception of headers. And this is with only 262 degrees advertised duration....a totally smog legal street cam with only .420 lift. All the other guys were lucky to gain like 10-20hp with their cams on these engines.
Anyway, as usual I got off the subject. Give Isky a call, cause Ive never seen one fail. Not saying they never do, but I havent seen it. Plus their springs are really nice.

 

[Warp6]

Been down that road, sorry about your back luck
Go billet roller and don't look back. Pricey but well worth your investment.

 

[yullose]

Copy-n-pasted right from the comp cams website:

http://www.compcams.com/information/whatsnew/NewsDetails.asp?ListHistoryID=1985582846

COMP Cams® offers flat tappet lifters with oiling holes in the cam face surface, which will increase oil flow to the lifter-camshaft lobe contact point. Furthermore, using a lifter bore grooving tool (COMP Cams® #5003) will enhance oiling throughout the camshaft and valve train. As we all know by now, better oil flow means better initial break-in and increased camshaft durability.

 

[VadersV6]

If 2 surfaces are the same hardness and exremely smooth, it doesnt take alot of oil to keep things slippery. Comp is blaming the reduction in zinc and manganese (or magnesium) as the culprit. If that were the case, then why is it that my cam isnt going flat, as well as endless thousands of flat tappet cams all over the globe? I would bet that there was a quality issue discovered and this is damage control.
You can actually buy moly powder and sprinkle a little in your oil. You can get it at gun stores. Be careful cause this crap gets EVERYWHERE.

 

[WHEEZER]

Erson has the proper reverse taper on the #3 exhaust lobe. Call Comp cams and ask them why they don't correct it in their cams......I could'nt get a valid reason.

 

[norbs]

You have to go roller, phone Weber up and order what you need. WHy have all these worries about wiping cams?

 

[49-blues]

What other cam companies have the reversion on the #3? does schneider ( on the 214/224 or 208/224 whatever the case be?) or total-seal on their 204/214?Thanks

 

[WHEEZER]

GM stock and Erson are the only ones I am aware of.

 

[Bryan Weber]

Flat cam failures

Bryan Weber,

First off, thank you for your support and interest in this community.
I am NOT stating your cams have failed. Matter of fact, Weber cams are the only ones I recall not being listed under "names of camshaft shame" manufacturers. IMHO, even a 10% cam failure rate is too much and it is realized your quality insurance would never allow that in your operation.

We would ALL go roller if it was in the budget (Trust me). Since that is not the reality or majority rule on this board (if it was we would all have roller set-ups), it looks like the sales volume and market will be higher in the flat tappet set-up arena.

Without giving any trade secrets away to the competition, can you assist in answering the issues at hand in addition to specific actions (if anything) you have taken to ensure your flat tappet cams do not wipe at the rate we are seeing?

We really have no trade secrets we just try to do things right. Here are some things that we feel are important to flat lifter cam survival. These items must work because we have almost no failures. Many of these items have already been mentioned but I will run though it anyway:

1) Proper installation:
A) Make sure all components are clean and free of any dents, nicks, or burrs.
B) Coat all lobes and lifter bottoms with cam lube.
C) Have proper springs installed and set-up correctly (for .450" lift cam 90-100 lbs. on the seat and approx. 220lbs open)
D) Make sure valves can open fully with no interferance or binding (rockers will allow lift, pushrods don't bind, retainers clear valve seals at full valve lift, and springs do not coil bind).
E) Use GM lifters (we keep them in stock and highly recommend them with all of our Buick v6 flat cams).

2) Proper break in
A) Prime oil system prior to initial start up with fresh straight 30 or 40 weight quality oil.
B) Prime fuel system and be sure of no leaks
C) Fill cooling system and be sure it is in proper operating condition.
D) Make sure igntion is in order
E) Crank engine and have it fire immediately and increase rpm to approx. 2,000 fluctuating occasionally it slightly for at least 15 minutes making sure oil pressure is good and engine stays cool.
F) Change oil and filter immediately after cam break in again with straight weight oil
G) Drive car or run engine for another hour or so and change oil and filter again and install high grade synthetic oil.
H) Be concious(sp) of idle time. The cam and lifter surface does not oil well at idle so it should be kept to a minimum.

If using quality products and these steps are followed the cams should hold fine in these engines. It works for us.