Dual feeding tommorrow.

[Steve V]

I am dual feeding for the 1st time tommorrow. This is not my car,I have CK's book and have been using it to the T in my rebuilds this year. My last one turned out great.

I am going to follow it unless anyone has any extra tidbits. This tran was rebuilt by him years ago. Not dual feed,looks like a stock build with a billet drum. Also has blocked 1-2 accumulator. He is using a 3400 stall. I am planning on leaving it blocked. I am adding CK's servo with dual feed direct.

 

[bison]

Call CK. There have been improvements since the book was published. A new clutch setup for direct with thinner CLUTCHES not steels, blocking the 3 rd accum passage/pinning a valve. Or just get a new seperator from CK so you wont have to plug. With the new clutch setup and the billet piston in direct it should take almost anything that a 9.50 or slower car can throw at it. Well, direct anyway. You will still need all billet if you want to push it that hard.

 

[Steve V]

Got the new plate in hand. All I need to do is drill the hole to.125(have to double check that). To prevent the bind up issue.

 

[bison]

Got the new plate in hand. All I need to do is drill the hole to.125(have to double check that). To prevent the bind up issue.

Drilling out the direct drum and using the thinner clutches and thicker steels helps on the ratio change.

 

[Steve V]

I forgot about drilling the drum,gonna do that too. He won't get the thinner clutches and thicker steels this go round. Next time

 

[HellOnWheels]

"Bind up"?

Got the new plate in hand. All I need to do is drill the hole to.125(have to double check that). To prevent the bind up issue.

Steve,

Would you please explain what happens when the trans "binds up"??

Thanks

 

[mikestertwo]

Steve,

Would you please explain what happens when the trans "binds up"??

Thanks

Bind up happens when you go to dual feed. Dual feeding doubles the surface area you are using on the direct clutch when going into 3rd gear. This means you need 1/2 the pressure to start engaging the clutches. This is the same oil that is used to "push off" the 2nd gear band. So what happens is 3rd starts to engage before 2nd releases and you get a "bind up" until 2nd releases. It's noticable at light throttle. It almost feels like someone is lightly touching the brakes during the 2-3 shift.

 

[HellOnWheels]

What mine does is when downshifting to 2nd gear manually the car will actually nose over like the brakes have been moderately applied but will not fully engage 2nd gear!! The band is applying but for some reason the trans won't engage 2nd gear!?? I burned up the band in less than 20 miles trying to force 2nd manual. The trans works absolutely perfect in the auto mode but manual 2nd is a no-no, no matter how you try to engage it manually. Could this be caused by the bind-up that you are referring to??

Thanks,
HOW

 

[bison]

The bindup mikestertwo is referring to is unlikely on a downshift unless the oil is not exhausting from the 3rd apply. I bet it would just about lock the tires up though

 

[Steve V]

Guys I am a NOVICE:biggrin: to the dual feeding thing,and the car isn't mine so I don't get to drive it everyday. I test drove it and there seemed to be no issues with bind. I did everything CK said except use his new fiction/clutch combo.

 

[chris718]

great news steve.i have trouble following instructions from time to time and usually suffer the consequences.i was called out a while back on the early dual feed set up and told it didnt work,.problem was people werent drilling the direct drum as per my instructions.the hole in the new plate is the right size and needs no mods.the 2 deleted holes and accompanying check balls also provide the necessary feel and function

 

[jakeshoe]

I've dual fed dozens of 200-4Rs using Chris's advice and various VB calibrations/kits.
IME the band release hole needs to be slightly enlarged.
I've done the dual feed with and without drilling the drum and never noticed a bind-up on the up or downshift IF the band release hole was properly sized.

One thing to remember, when you drill the hole in the drum is you will have a leak on air check that may make you nervous when you air check it assembled.

I have a VB calibration I've been using for awhile and I have also used Chris's Kit.

I tried the extra plugged hole at Chris's suggestion and gave him feedback on how it worked with his kit as well as what I use and it WORKS.

I finished one tonight....

On a side note,
Chris, I'll be getting some of the plates from you, it isn't worth my time to plug the stock ones.

 

[Lee Thompson]

band release hole?

I assume you are refering to the hole that comes out near the pan gasket?

 

[jakeshoe]

I assume you are refering to the hole that comes out near the pan gasket?

No,
Not the hole in the case.
There is an orificed hole in the plate, TransGo plugs the large hole next to it (as do most other kits) and they call it the "F" hole. The small hole next to it that shares the same checkball when used, is the BR hole.
When you plug the F hole you have to drill the BR hole, this goes to about .110" on a non dual fed unit and larger on a dual fed unit.

The hole you drill in the drum is for a 3-2 kickdown, so the directs can release quicker. Same theory as the hole in a TH400 drum for transbrake use.

 

[Steve V]

Jake are you say CK's plate already has the "F" hole plugged?That maybe one of the balls he deletes.................

 

[jakeshoe]

CK's plate has the F hole plugged as well as another hole, so you delete two checkballs because of the two plugged passages.

Chris had studied the circuitry and determined them to be better with both holes plugged on the 2-3 shift and told me to try it.

I was doing several 200-4Rs at the time and doing the install so I got to build and road test. The extra plugged hole really seems to clean up the 2-3 shift at part throttle.

The 2-3 on as dual fed unit was always great at 2/3 and above throttle, but at light to medium throttle openings it could be sloppy. This cleans that up but doesn't seem to cause any tie-up on the 2-3. Just a very clean shift. I've actually reduced my 3rd feed holes size slightly to tame the 2-3 shift a bit.

I finished up a unit last night using the calibration here.
I've been using a different calibration that is a combination of things I learned from trying almost all the kits on the market and some tips passed on to me from guys here.

The good thing about that is,
Chris can test a mod using his kit, and then I can further test it using my setup, and we can be sure it works good even if the builder and specific calibration are a bit different.

 

[Steve V]

Thanks for the info,you guys are great!

 

[chris718]

jake thats exactly what i found as well.also the 6 years ago dual feed used stock 2/3 holes from the x plate as well as the 3rd acc feed and it sifted great but would cause a bind on the lift during a 2/3 upshift but not on the road.this questioned long term durability.