Dumbsh*t and more

[BillyRValentine]

Jim,

I too have no bad feelings about you. We have gone at it before and you felt strongly about your opinion and I did mine. That’s OK with me and when it was all over I didn’t think any less of you. We have been on opposite sides of an argument as well as the same side at times. The triple R stickers have to do with the three individuals the “R’s” represent and the attitude they have within their little circle. The other individual you mention there is a personal issue with. I can’t get into it on advice of legal counsel.

I have had and still do have issues with the way the Nats are run. I was willing to eat crow, swallow my pride, put my tail between my legs and attend the Nats this year. You know the story and I don’t want to get into it again but when I was disqualified for political reasons it became apparent that the triple R’s and their inner circle that run the Nats have even less interest in any type of reconciliation than I do. I made it public knowledge that I was going to go, that I would play nice and not start up anything and then I’m told I’m disqualified, not welcome and that the gates would be locked and we would not be let in. Put yourself in my shoes for a minute, if that happened to you, would you be willing to try and reconcile? You can put it on me and say I poked and provoked them for years but they poked too. Prior to the thread about me being disqualified, others and I had actually been pretty good regarding bashing. A little poke here and there but nothing compared to the way it has been. I personally toned it down for a few reasons. The first reasons was the respect I got working with john Chamberlain on the 25th anniversary T-Shirt. That was pretty cool and I made friends with John through the process. It was also becoming clear that nothing would change regardless of how much you say and I was just getting tired of it.

The whole deal with the DQ just fired me up again. I still think I’m being pretty good about it. I got into it pretty good for a few weeks with Jim Rogers but that’s over, I know where he stands as well as all the people behind the scenes he was penning for, it’s all good. I did not bash the Nats before or after the event. Do I have an opinion, yes, did I start any of it, no. If you notice, the people complaining and starting the various threads are not what you would coin as the usual suspects. In fact, I’d say the majority are people I don’t even know. The thread was moved over to TB.com where typically things are more pro-Nats than on other boards. Even here people who I don’t know are commenting negatively. Are you going to blame it on me? I doubt these people even know who I am. For me the DQ really cemented that things will never be better between the Nats and me. I think there was an opportunity to possibly have a truce but that went out the window with the DQ. Believe me, I would not ever suggest that having allowed me to race would have corrected things but I don’t think it could have hurt.

Art.

Art, I am going to PM you my number. Do me a favor and call me when you get a chance. Now onto the other stuff. The club has roughly 3800 members, of that we all are educated enough to realize that there are going to be some issues. As far as the boards go we also should know that there are some who play on both ends. I haven't posted over there recently because since Shane and Jay C. took over this board I feel more at home here again. I have drug some of the crud slinging that we do over there over to here and realized after looking at several other heated threads by other members than none of them had taken on the tone that my last one did, not at the mention of anyone else just my own insight. As such I too have had to take a step back. Does it mean that I feel any differently about what was going on; no. So I do understand exactly what you are saying about toning it down.

From what I have seen over the years every time someone decides that they want to open another venue without fail there are those that tirelessly promote their event through political mudslinging, it gets old. I would never say that you are mainly responsible for those issues but what I have seen is that there are some that take you at your word and when they see 8-10 others jump on the bandwagon they take it as the gospel. They don't always take into consideration that there are thousands of members on each board and that the ones that take issue with the GSCA are a minority but highly vocal none the less. I wonder if the same minority would take issue if I were to begin pointing out every flaw I could find or begin bashing them with or without reason.

I still would like to talk to you Art. I realize that bridges aren't always rebuilt in a day or two but maybe with a mediator we could make some progress and get you back to the Nats should you want to do so. Not so much to make ammends but to share in the good times and commradery that takes place there every year. You have to miss it some.

Jim C.

 

[TurboDiverArt]

Art, I am going to PM you my number. Do me a favor and call me when you get a chance.

<<SNIP>>>

Jim C.

Dialing.

 

[EightSecV6]

If you don't want a response then don't post. Personal threats? Don't drag the mess from the other thread into this one. So you admit to having won good money from the club but then in the same breath degrade the GSCA that paid you so well. You appear to me to be a fair weather type of person. As long as things are going your way then all is gravy, the minute they are not then let the shinanigins begin. I am amazed that you are so blatent regarding your loyalty to a club that had done you right by your own admitance but then you turn on when the wind changes . Hey, at least you made it public.

I also find it ironic that one minute you want me to PM you and I decline. Then after you keep on poking at me I call instead of going back and forth on the PC you state you are too busy to talk. After all I remember a comment you made in a post a while back basically stating that if someone took issue with you then they should call, that is why you listed your number. When I do then you tell me you are too busy to talk. If that is the case then where do you find the time to be on the computer?

Let's not turn this into another mudfest. You don't want to answer those questions then so be it but the first paragraph is dead on target by your own admission Billy. You didn't want to share your thoughts, you want to fan a dwindling fire and then pull out a lawn chair. Progressive actions only come from progressive thoughts.

Jim C.

PLEASE STOP RESPONDING TO MY POSTS, LEAVE ME ALONE,how hard is that to understand? clear?

 

[BillyRValentine]

PLEASE STOP RESPONDING TO MY POSTS, LEAVE ME ALONE,how hard is that to understand? clear?

Hey brainchild, stay out of my threads then. Verstehst du? I thought I would ask you in German since you obviously do not understand English.

Jim C.

 

[gnxtc2]

The gent was probably Bennett Jones and he most likely didn't get involved because you were not asking him the questions. He is not a bad guy and had you asked him I am sure he would have given you a straight answer. If you are only spectating then yes you would need to park outside the gate.

Then why offer to sell a Pit Pass??? What is the purpose of the Pit Pass??? So I can't drive my vehicle in and help my friends with their cars.

Despite what some think the track rental and insurance for the week is allot more than what the sceptics think.

By you making this comment, then any vehicle that enters the fence is covered by track insurance.

As far as me calling them to give you an answer lets get this straight - I am not here to serve you.

In the back of my mind, I kinda of thought I was going to get this reply from you. I gave you the benefit of dought but I guess I was wrong. And you call yourself the GSCA Race Director. What exactly is your job? You are a representative of the GSCA and by making statements like this is a disgrace to the club. I hope the GSCA Officers are following this thread and see what kind of represtative they have.

I can ask them but to tell me what you don't want to hear over something I had nothing to do with is out of line.

Who said that you had something to do with it. I asked you if you can find out for me. If you can't do that, then fine, just say so. I don't need a comment like you posted above.

I commend you for having the gumption to admit your lack of planning in relation to the problem you had and hopefully should you come next year all with go more smoothly.

What lack of planning. I took the gamble and my car wasn't ready, simple. I had my hotel room booked in January. Everything went smoothly.

Jim I give it to you that you did an excellent job this but you have a piss poor attitude. You don't know how to talk to people and this what drives members away. I don't need to read/hear "I'm not here to serve you". Is it too hard to give whoever is in charge of my question a call and find out an answer?

Maybe I should go and post my question on the GSCA board.

Billy T.
gnxtc2@aol.com

 

[BillyRValentine]

Then why offer to sell a Pit Pass??? What is the purpose of the Pit Pass??? So I can't drive my vehicle in and help my friends with their cars.

What don't you understand? The GSCA is NOT the only club that operates this way yet you want to make it appear as if there is some great conspiracy to get everyone. Why don't you go to the ORSCA, NMRA, NSCA, NHRA or IHRA race and tell them that you want to be able to get your car into the pits without a pit pass and without being a racer or crew member just because you want to? I am sure you will get the same outcome.

By you making this comment, then any vehicle that enters the fence is covered by track insurance.

Don't know whether it is any vehicle or only racers. That is something I will have to ask about.

In the back of my mind, I kinda of thought I was going to get this reply from you. I gave you the benefit of dought but I guess I was wrong. And you call yourself the GSCA Race Director. What exactly is your job? You are a representative of the GSCA and by making statements like this is a disgrace to the club. I hope the GSCA Officers are following this thread and see what kind of represtative they have.

Yes I am the race director and by your statement above I can tell that you have obviously never run a race of this size. Am I responsible for the logistics of the over all event (which by the way would include entry to the track); no. I am responsible for the logistics of the race itself. You tell me how you have put on events yourself. If so then these are issues that you should be well aware of. I don't run the entire show; I run the "R-A-C-E" program, not entries, not the car show, not payouts, not sponsorship, not the golf carts or vendors only the race program schedule and rules themselves. Get it? As for whether or not the head officials are watching this thread to me is irrelevant. What you and others fail to understand is that for many years the GSCA has been your whipping boy and now there is someone who is willing to stand up and tell you when you have the facts wrong or are simply sniping at the club for no other reason than to jump on a bandwagon or for your own entertainment. If you were so offended by Bennett walking away why you didn’t pull him aside and ask him about it? He is a reasonable guy and I am sure he would have given you a straight answer. Instead you took offense to it, said nothing at the time and then came here to post your grievance. That leads me to my next issue which is more often than not those that have taken issue with something at the Nats have come to the internet to post all about how wrong they were done instead of trying to handle the issue then or with a simple phone call. There have been a few that have handled things in person (Regardless of the outcome.) and I applaud them. You have made it abundantly clear that you want to set a trap and spring it when you think I have taken your bait. Anyone with any kind of common sense can see that.

Who said that you had something to do with it. I asked you if you can find out for me. If you can't do that, then fine, just say so. I don't need a comment like you posted above.

Yes you did need it because you don't really want answers you only want more ammo in which to use to further your argument. You contradict yourself.

What lack of planning. I took the gamble and my car wasn't ready, simple. I had my hotel room booked in January. Everything went smoothly.

Billy T.
gnxtc2@aol.com

Billy, by having to gamble it leads one to only one of two conclusions which is that there was some type of catastrophe that prevented it or it was a lack of planning on your part. If not please tell me what I am missing. I don't care either way. I have had to gamble myself but never once did I ever say that it was not due to a lack of planning on my part. The two are related period.

Jim C.

 

[gnxtc2]

What don't you understand? The GSCA is NOT the only club that operates this way yet you want to make it appear as if there is some great conspiracy to get everyone. Why don't you go to the ORSCA, NMRA, NSCA, NHRA or IHRA race and tell them that you want to be able to get your car into the pits without a pit pass and without being a racer or crew member just because you want to? I am sure you will get the same outcome.

Who said anything about trying to get into the pits without paying. If you take a few breathes and read my question. All I asked why I had to pay a registration fee to enter the pits, that's all. Nothing about entering for free. Maybe you misunderstood me, by me saying my vehicle, I do not mean a race car. I mean my vehicle that I drove there, specifically a 1997 F250 pickup.

Don't know whether it is any vehicle or only racers. That is something I will have to ask about.

OK

Yes I am the race director and by your statement above I can tell that you have obviously never run a race of this size.

Never said that I did. Stick to the original question I asked.

Am I responsible for the logistics of the over all event (which by the way would include entry to the track); no. I am responsible for the logistics of the race itself. You tell me how you have put on events yourself. If so then these are issues that you should be well aware of. I don't run the entire show; I run the "R-A-C-E" program, not entries, not the car show, not payouts, not sponsorship, not the golf carts or vendors only the race program schedule and rules themselves. Get it? As for whether or not the head officials are watching this thread to me is irrelevant.

Do you want a medal or a statue?

What you and others fail to understand is that for many years the GSCA has been your whipping boy and now there is someone who is willing to stand up and tell you when you have the facts wrong or are simply sniping at the club for no other reason than to jump on a bandwagon or for your own entertainment.

Where did I ever say anything negative about the GSCA. Been a member since 1988. Find me anywhere that I posted anything negative towards the GSCA.

If you were so offended by Bennett walking away why you didn’t pull him aside and ask him about it? He is a reasonable guy and I am sure he would have given you a straight answer. Instead you took offense to it, said nothing at the time and then came here to post your grievance.

Yes, I tried to ask him but he walked away.

That leads me to my next issue which is more often than not those that have taken issue with something at the Nats have come to the internet to post all about how wrong they were done instead of trying to handle the issue then or with a simple phone call.

So did you PM your number? If you want me to PM me mine, I'll do so. But you probably don't care either.

There have been a few that have handled things in person (Regardless of the outcome.) and I applaud them. You have made it abundantly clear that you want to set a trap and spring it when you think I have taken your bait. Anyone with any kind of common sense can see that.

What are you talking about??? What trap?????

Yes you did need it because you don't really want answers you only want more ammo in which to use to further your argument. You contradict yourself.

You must have me confused with someone else

Billy, by having to gamble it leads one to only one of two conclusions which is that there was some type of catastrophe that prevented it or it was a lack of planning on your part. If not please tell me what I am missing. I don't care either way. I have had to gamble myself but never once did I ever say that it was not due to a lack of planning on my part. The two are related period.

Jim C.

What gamble??? What lack of planning??? I was working on my car and it was not going to be ready for BG. Am I missing something here???

Why ask then don't care either way. All I asked why I was charged a Registration fee? After these posts between us, you have attacked me for no reason. I never said anything bad about you or the GSCA. I don't know where you get your accusations from.

In your previous post, you stated that you were on call and would try and find out an answer for me ASAP. All you posted why I was attacking the GSCA and that I have personal vendetta against it. After all these posts, I still did not get an answer. If you did not know, just say so. If you ask anyone that knows me, I have nothing against the GSCA. Like I said before, member since 1988 and member of the NE Chapter.

Billy T.
gnxtc2@aol.com

 

[BillyRValentine]

Who said anything about trying to get into the pits without paying. If you take a few breathes and read my question. All I asked why I had to pay a registration fee to enter the pits, that's all. Nothing about entering for free. Maybe you misunderstood me, by me saying my vehicle, I do not mean a race car. I mean my vehicle that I drove there, specifically a 1997 F250 pickup.

What does taking a few breathes have to do with anything? Who is upset? I think that I have been pretty straight forward with you. Again it does not matter what you are driving. If you are trying to enter the pits there is a fee to do so. Generally speaking it is reserved for people racing. The people racing are members and as such are charged a fee just like everyone else. I have paid every year to be able to park in there without issue as I was aware of the rule.

OK

See we agree on something.

Never said that I did. Stick to the original question I asked.

I have stuck to it and answered it. If I missed something then post it again under this quote of mine and I will again attempt to answer it.

Do you want a medal or a statue?

Let me get this straight, you say that I have attacked you but then come at me with a remark such as this. I want neither, I do things because I want to not for the accolades.

Where did I ever say anything negative about the GSCA. Been a member since 1988. Find me anywhere that I posted anything negative towards the GSCA.

Here ya go -

I've been in BG where I've seen first hand where the GSCA protects their own and screws the racers. This is bad because the racer that was screwed will tell his friends, then the friend will tell his and so on. The GSCA should stop with their politics and concentrate more on its members. Enough is enough.

or

I too had a problem with the GSCA with the way they run things. Example:
I did not pre-register this year because I did not know if my car was going to be ready. I drive up to the table and want to purchase advance tickets. Yes, the price went up because I did not pre-register....fine, it's my fault, it has been printed that price will be higher so there is no surprise. First I'll post what I needed to purchase then the problem.

8 spectator tickets $20.......$160
1 pit pass $22...................$22
1 Registration fee..............$50
Total...............................$235

The problem came when the lady told me that she had to charge me the $50 Late registration fee because I wanted a Pit Pass. I asked why am I being charged the Registration fee if I am not racing just spectating and hanging with my friends? I have to register to enter the pits with my vehicle???? She goes on to tell me then park on the outside and walking in, nice attitude. I don't know his name but there is was a guy with a beard and shorts wearing a pink GSCA hat standing behind the table hearing my conversation. When I started to ask my questions to the lady, he walked away. There is no mentioning of paying a Registration fee for a Pit Pass in the GSXtra or elsewhere. So basically I got charged $77 to enter the pits with my vehicle. Jim could you answer why I was charged the registration fee?

In the bottom one you make your issues known here only thus far. I can assure you that had Bennett heard you he would have stopped and taken the time to answer your question. Don't make him out to be a bad guy, he is somewhat direct but that is the nature of his personality. He is a very intelligent, right brained individual. People like that tend to me more direct in their speaking that most others. It really is that simple.

So did you PM your number? If you want me to PM me mine, I'll do so. But you probably don't care either.

Look Billy, if you want to have a progressive debate then insults such as the last line of your above quote must be taken out of the equation. I have said this before and I will state it again, do not confuse my actions in the other thread with my actions within this one. As you should be able to tell they are vastly different and for VERY different reasons. I have no issue with you, we are simply discusing and hopefully resolving issues here.You are more than welcome to call me. I will PM you my number gladly.

What are you talking about??? What trap?????

You begin well but then toss in a personal jab or two such as the one I explained to you above.

What gamble??? What lack of planning??? I was working on my car and it was not going to be ready for BG. Am I missing something here???

Why ask then don't care either way. All I asked why I was charged a Registration fee? After these posts between us, you have attacked me for no reason. I never said anything bad about you or the GSCA. I don't know where you get your accusations from.

One, show where I have attacked you. Two, I get there from your own posts.

In your previous post, you stated that you were on call and would try and find out an answer for me ASAP. All you posted why I was attacking the GSCA and that I have personal vendetta against it. After all these posts, I still did not get an answer. If you did not know, just say so. If you ask anyone that knows me, I have nothing against the GSCA. Like I said before, member since 1988 and member of the NE Chapter.

Billy T.
gnxtc2@aol.com

Billy, I am on call and I will answer your questions but I would think that you would realize that I am not going to pick up the phone over the weekend and do so. People want to relax and I am not going to call Richard or Bennett over this type of stuff when they are at home on a weekend. The only reason I am on here right now is because I am on call. I will have you an answer next week.

Jim C.

PS - Check your PM's.

 

[MikeV]

The funny thing is that the membership is not "dwindling" because people are so tired of the GSCA. The membership has dropped some over the last TEN YEARS as people have moved on to other cars and or gotten out of the car hobby.

I'm not wanting to get into the big pissing match, I just have some food for thought. What about the people getting INTO the Buick community/hobby? I've been into cars for 2 decades and have just come to the Buick fold a few months back. There is no reason membership numbers shouldn't at least maintain themselves with the introduction of new people such as myself. This is my first impression of the GSCA, do you think I'm up for joining?

 

[DragulaGN]

I'm not wanting to get into the big pissing match, I just have some food for thought. What about the people getting INTO the Buick community/hobby? I've been into cars for 2 decades and have just come to the Buick fold a few months back. There is no reason membership numbers shouldn't at least maintain themselves with the introduction of new people such as myself. This is my first impression of the GSCA, do you think I'm up for joining?

EXACTLY

 

[BillyRValentine]

I'm not wanting to get into the big pissing match, I just have some food for thought. What about the people getting INTO the Buick community/hobby? I've been into cars for 2 decades and have just come to the Buick fold a few months back. There is no reason membership numbers shouldn't at least maintain themselves with the introduction of new people such as myself. This is my first impression of the GSCA, do you think I'm up for joining?

If you have watched over the last several years the amount of people that have sold there cars and left versus the amount that have come into this community is not the same. More have left and the ones that have bought the cars are not really racing them as has been done in the past. It isn't just the GSCA. If it were then Norwalk, Indy and Columbus should be booming. As such there is not another Buick club out there that can claim 3800 plus members. There are many reasons that people are not racing these cars as much as they used to. One of the main reasons is parts availability. Another is the cost vs. performance. People can blame it on what ever they like but the fact remains that they are just not being raced as they were even 5 years ago. I can name a dozen people right now that have either sold their turbo Buicks and or converted them to V8 turbo power including myself.

Jim C.

 

[broke1]

they are pathetic for as much backstabbing as they do.


That about sums up most turbo Buick owners Jim.

FWIW Jimmy C is a pretty cool guy in my book.He stands up for what he thinks is right,cant fault a guy for that.

I do feel that youre way off base for defending the GSCA like youre doing though....

 

[BillyRValentine]

they are pathetic for as much backstabbing as they do.


That about sums up most turbo Buick owners Jim.

FWIW Jimmy C is a pretty cool guy in my book.He stands up for what he thinks is right,cant fault a guy for that.

I do feel that youre way off base for defending the GSCA like youre doing though....

Hey pimp juice, call me when you get the chance. I have a buttload of parts that I am about to get rid of. As for the GSCA thing it just goes to show you that we don't have to agree on things to be friends. Holler at me Drew. How is the family?

Jim C.

 

[BMF_Racing]

I'm not wanting to get into the big pissing match, I just have some food for thought. What about the people getting INTO the Buick community/hobby? I've been into cars for 2 decades and have just come to the Buick fold a few months back. There is no reason membership numbers shouldn't at least maintain themselves with the introduction of new people such as myself. This is my first impression of the GSCA, do you think I'm up for joining?

x2

Jim C.,


Even though you say you are not speaking on behalf of the GSCA, the negative comments and threats do no good for the club or the opinions of the GS Nats. And because you are part of the staff, those opinions are not viewed as personal.

I myself attended the 2007 Nats for the first time. I keep hearing how it used to be, and how it is now. I have seen better and far worst events (have bracket raced since 1991) , so being new to this event, it sounds like its (Nats) been a great event past and has been going down hill. These are just some common opinions that I continue to hear from alot of buick guys I talk to. Why be open with opinions that will reflect negatively on the Club ?

Just my $0.02


Brad

PS: I enjoyed the Nats and will attend next year, but being new I don't know how it "used" to be.

 

[BillyRValentine]

x2

Jim C.,


Even though you say you are not speaking on behalf of the GSCA, the negative comments and threats do no good for the club or the opinions of the GS Nats. And because you are part of the staff, those opinions are not viewed as personal.

What negative comments? As for any promises that were made, well that was a whole different thread. The fact that I am a staff member only gives those that would otherwise look for any opportunity to be able to find fault in something I am doing another chance. I do realize that I represent the club but any intelligent person should be able to distinguish between the two different facets. I understand what you are saying but the fact remains that for years some have continued to berate the GSCA and the Nats without truly being called to task on it. They have typically ganged up on any one or two individuals that would otherwise stand up to them. I am not that individual. If something is wrong then I will be the first to say so but the amount of BS that has been perpetuated has long been out of control.

I myself attended the 2007 Nats for the first time. I keep hearing how it used to be, and how it is now. I have seen better and far worst events (have bracket raced since 1991) , so being new to this event, it sounds like its (Nats) been a great event past and has been going down hill. These are just some common opinions that I continue to hear from alot of buick guys I talk to. Why be open with opinions that will reflect negatively on the Club ?

Just my $0.02


Brad

PS: I enjoyed the Nats and will attend next year, but being new I don't know how it "used" to be.

Brad, I am sure that people have stopped coming as much as they used to for multiple reasons. One that people have not acknowledged is that the people that have purchased these cars do not race them the way previous owners did. Add to that the inability to locate parts as well as the cost of turbo Regal parts and the now limited amount of vendors left out there and it is not just the Nats that are down, it is the entire Buick community. There have been allot of folks that have sold the cars, stopped racing them and or swapped in other motors. I do hope you come next year, please stop in and introduce yourself. You will find that I am not nearly as aggressive as I would appear here. Until then take care and good luck to you and yours.

Jim C.