E85 and Alky, working together to eliminate intercoolers?

[Razor]

Adam,
I think your feeling the stock IC is robbing you of power somehow. It would be different if your car was an 84/85 that didnt come with an IC. A stock IC.. a dutt neck.. and alky have taken many many Buicks into the low 11's on lesser octane gas and alky. I know of a car that trapped 132 MPH on a bone stock unmodified 86/87 GN IC.

The biggest issue I see when you start to blow a huge amount of alky is controlling it. Meaning the mass of the pump vs changes to it speed vs distance from nozzle to combustion chamber. etc. What we do with alky kits is great.. give the motor some alky..and whalla.. instant gratification. When you start getting picky of precisely metering.. the pump/nozzle system cannot make changes fast enough.

One thing is to replace 15-20% of your fueling.. once they start going crazy to 40-50-60% the nozzle system doesnt work well.. especially with manual tranny's/2steps/etc. Not that it doesnt work,, but other issues like hitting a rev limiter at 9k rpms and 35 PSI boost can be bad news.

Anyone wanting to run huge doses of meth.. should do as Don says.. go to straight meth and run meth injectors. And maintain their system accordingly after a weekend of racing.

 

[Adam Connell]

Thanks for writing that up Julio, I was under the assumption that the stock IC core was a POS I didnt know it had gone that quick, since that seems to be one of the first things people get rid of on these cars.

I think im going to check out the dutt necks, thanks for the info because thats what I was looking for.

 

[Razor]

No problems.. Joe Mooneys car with a 3255 went 11.2 at 122 on MT drag radials. Full weight, stock long block. 93 octane and meth injection.

That alky makes a POS IC appear like a huge FM.

 

[GNVYUS 1]

Hey Adam, I'm going this route and started on the swap over. 110 here is now $6 and 7 a gallon so my mixing days are done.

79lbs injectors and a TT chip are going in and I have someone who is going to produce the Turbo to TB inlet pipe in 3" polished aluminum to make it really easy ( one pipe ). I'll post back when it's ready for everyone to buy or they'll probably post it.

I'm not going to be on the road until March but my plans are to track these things to show this is possible and worth doing. I might have to get Powerlogger which is not appealing right now.

1) MAT of FMIC and M15 alky at 20psi ( gas )
2) PSI change from ditching the FMIC
3) MAT of NO FMIC at 20psi ( E85 )
4) MAT of NO FMIC and M2 Pre Turbo at 20psi ( E85 )
5) MAT of NO FMIC and M15 alky at 20psi ( E85 )
6) MAT of NO FMIC and twin M15 alky at 20psi ( 85 )

Don, I see what you're saying in the rich mixture aiding in the cooling due to ditching the FMIC. But we're going to use Alky Injection to bring us back into FMIC MAT temp range which should help us on injector pulse width and pump volume with E85. The twin alky should definitely help out the 79lbers on the moderate to smaller turbo's and the Supra pump is just adequate enough.

 

[Razor]

Did you read the last of this post?

http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/al...2727-nozzle-placement-iat-sensor-spacing.html

Make the pipe longer and give the nozzles some distance.

 

[JayC]

We made over 1300 horsepower at the wheels with no intercooler. Straight methanol, tho. After a pull on the dyno, you could put your hand on the intake runners and they would be cold.

 

[GNVYUS 1]

Ya, I figured I'd put the sensor in the back of the plenum to give the alky the most time to dissipate and not give off a colder reading. Not sure how much $$ I really want to put into all that since I know this setup will go beyond the amount of psi I'd ever run.

Jay, do you think your car would benefit from a denser charge on top of the Methanol ( as a fuel )? Don's comment comes to mind in dealing with the fuel richness to aid in cooling vs just running a cooler charge temp. Not like you guys need more power but with all the logging you guys are doing it would be interesting to see how the car responds.

 

[JayC]

Jay, do you think your car would benefit from a denser charge on top of the Methanol ( as a fuel )? Don's comment comes to mind in dealing with the fuel richness to aid in cooling vs just running a cooler charge temp. Not like you guys need more power but with all the logging you guys are doing it would be interesting to see how the car responds.

I think in the case of running E85 and methanol that you'd benefit from a cooler charge. You can only cram so much methanol into an engine when youre running it as an addon and youre also dealing with a lot less compression to begin with. We run 12:1 and use about 2.5 gallons of alcohol per pass.

 

[novi2000]

Any more updates on this topic?