Once I get my setup finished...I'm going to be running straight E85 on my car. I'm worried about how it will affect the internals of the motor over time (like after 3-5 years). I'm gonna talk to Dan and see what he says about it. I wouldn't think with forged internals and stainless valves in the GN1 heads that we would have any problems with corrosion. Not to mention E85 is not 100% alcohol like some people think. E85 is 85% alcohol and 15% gasoline so there are lubricating additives in E85. I'll be running an external Weldon pump with a sumped tank so no problems there...stainless braided line all the way up to the motor, etc. Also running 95 lb injectors and a Big Stuff 3 computer so the tuning and fuel will be there. E85 is VERY plentiful around this area and I would love to be able to run on this stuff all the time.
E85 Tuned Chip ????
- Thread starter RRev Tim
- Start date
I've read up alot on E-85 and Don I believe your worries about engine internals are NOT warranted. I know you have used it before and are more knowledgable than most. I would however use a very good oil. I use Royal Purple, its a great oil and performs very well in Methanol cars. Again thanks to my methanol racing friends
Ethanol is no sweat for it.E-85 is a distant cousin of Methanol. I'll say it again, most of the corrision stories we hear are from the methonal camp or people confusing the two and not doing enough homework to know the difference.
I have a few friends that run methanol race setups. They laughed when I said I was worried about corrosion problems with E-85 in regards to how Methanol would react in the same situation. Its a different animal...period
The Turbobuick community is way behind in using and tuning with this stuff. Don you might want to look ( if you haven't already ) at the information in the WRX, EVO, Mustang etc communities. Plenty of people in those communities, running a long time ( over 3 years ) with stock parts. Alot and I mean alot of people in SWEDEN are running E-70-85 in cars a hell of alot older than ours with great results. You can also raise your timing 3-5 degrees across the board all the while producing lower EGT temps.
Walbro has also been doing testing and is not conclusive ( at this time ) on any damaged caused by running E-85.
For everyone else. There is tons of information out there. Yes you are going to have to wade through the PC crap to get to some of it.
Eric @ TT and I both agree that the only way to truly run the E-85 well is to use a WB setup that interfaces to the ECM or your Fasts, etc for closed loop operation. This would take care of the different grades of ethanol you'll get in the winter verses the summer. More later...
vacuum 6
I have chuckers
- Joined
- Jan 6, 2006
I think its great that we got guys playing around with E85.
Question I've read on the National Ethanol Vehicle Coalition to convert to E85 the gas tank, lines, etc need to be E85 compatible. What up with that?
Question I've read on the National Ethanol Vehicle Coalition to convert to E85 the gas tank, lines, etc need to be E85 compatible. What up with that?
vacuum 6
I have chuckers
- Joined
- Jan 6, 2006
Meth helps with knock suppression, lots of guys run 116 and meth. I would say yes more boost with e85 and meth. Dont know how much more you want to go when guys are running 26+ on 93 and meth now.
I will add a meth kit at some point but I'm not sure it is warranted. I just want to see for myself. The E-85 as a primary fuel has a huge cooling effect more so than the meth kit. Having said that it WILL help me a little since I'm still running a stock IC, someone with a FM I doubt it would be worth the trouble, but the jury is still out. No one here that I know of has tried all of those combinations. Also having E-85 at the right AFR it will be real hard to get it to knock in most of our engines. If tuned at the correct AFR, you would probably break the engine ( STOCKISH ) first before any real knock occured. I know this because of people that I have talked to that have used E-85 in turbo applications for years. The knock supression that E-85 has is phenomenal. Remember it has a road octane of 105 and since your injecting it directly the cooling effect is very much improved over just an ALKY injection kit. For the most part you will make more power on E-85 than Race gas , even race gas WITH alky. Plenty of turbo cars at the track running E-85 that hot lap their cars with back to back to back consistant runs. What does that tell you?? These same people used to run race gas and don't now. Also it seems tracks are starting to sell E-98 and of course it is much cheaper than race gas :biggrin:
I have no concerns about the tank and the lines. I do have concerns long term about the pump and the injectors. As you know alcohol, has less lubricity than gas so moving parts such as pumps and injectors can possibly wear out faster. However most tests that I know of they are using E-100 and not E-85 which has pump gas in it and in turn increases the lubricity. Well duh, who in the hell would run E-100 and not throw a little Klotz or something in there??
thunderace31
Banned
- Joined
- Sep 2, 2002
Never heard of E98 or E100 where do people get this stuff from??
all we have here in the Detroit area is the good old E85 pump stuff. Track sell striaght Methonal but not Ethenal
Im sure you could just make your own Moonshine and use that to since its about the same lmao!
You an order E-100 in 55 gallon drums just like you can race gas. E-98 is just something that some of tracks have been selling. You won't find either one at a public pump. HTH
Ok, got a few questions about this... With gas prices skyrocketing, this is something we all need to consider for our cars..
Is there a possible way to allow adaptiblity so that we can run 93 octane when a E85 pump can't be found?
Also, would it be worth the effort converting to E85 if I am wanting to run ALKY and 93 octane??
Could I use a 50/50 mix of E85/93 octane with my current fuel delivery set-up? Guess that would be E35?? Am using Red's XP + pump and 009 injectors.
Been running toluene with GREAT success.. about 20% toluene, and the rest 100 octane "Rocket Fuel" from Gas City.. With no other race gas around its about the best I've been able to come up with. What you guys think??
Is there a possible way to allow adaptiblity so that we can run 93 octane when a E85 pump can't be found?
Also, would it be worth the effort converting to E85 if I am wanting to run ALKY and 93 octane??
Could I use a 50/50 mix of E85/93 octane with my current fuel delivery set-up? Guess that would be E35?? Am using Red's XP + pump and 009 injectors.
Been running toluene with GREAT success.. about 20% toluene, and the rest 100 octane "Rocket Fuel" from Gas City.. With no other race gas around its about the best I've been able to come up with. What you guys think??
TURBOPOWERED68
David
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2006
looking to learn
thunderace31
Banned
- Joined
- Sep 2, 2002
Where did you get the toluene from??? I cant find it here in the Detroit area
Thanks
Thanks
vacuum 6
I have chuckers
- Joined
- Jan 6, 2006
Cant be cheap...$12 per gallon?
If you have an account and buy 5 gals its $4.67 a gal after tax.. about the best I've been able to get it for anywhere. They do sell 55 gal. drums for cheaper, but I didn't want to deal with that.. It raises octane considerably, most I've used is ~35% toluene as there is not much lubricity to it.. I like to add a gal of it to a tank for normal driving as it raises the octane to about 94-95 and my motor likes to run this way on the street and I can run 16 psi of boost without worry of knock.
The 100 octane doesn't raise the octane anywhere near as much and costs about the same, but it has all the lubricants of reg. gas and can be run with 25% toluene getting the octane up to ~105... I mixed 1/3rd toluene with some Marvel Mystery oil and 100 octane for ~108 and got up to 23 psi... the fastest my car has ran to date.
The 100 octane doesn't raise the octane anywhere near as much and costs about the same, but it has all the lubricants of reg. gas and can be run with 25% toluene getting the octane up to ~105... I mixed 1/3rd toluene with some Marvel Mystery oil and 100 octane for ~108 and got up to 23 psi... the fastest my car has ran to date
.If you have an account and buy 5 gals its $4.67 a gal after tax.. about the best I've been able to get it for anywhere. They do sell 55 gal. drums for cheaper, but I didn't want to deal with that.. It raises octane considerably, most I've used is ~35% toluene as there is not much lubricity to it.. I like to add a gal of it to a tank for normal driving as it raises the octane to about 94-95 and my motor likes to run this way on the street and I can run 16 psi of boost without worry of knock.
The 100 octane doesn't raise the octane anywhere near as much and costs about the same, but it has all the lubricants of reg. gas and can be run with 25% toluene getting the octane up to ~105... I mixed 1/3rd toluene with some Marvel Mystery oil and 100 octane for ~108 and got up to 23 psi... the fastest my car has ran to date
To each his own but E-85 works better than home brew :biggrin:
thunderace31
Banned
- Joined
- Sep 2, 2002
The only thing you have to worry about it is the O2 they dont like race gas.
I use the denzo sensors and they last a lot longer
If you use a heated sensor that also helps. (Mine is a denzo heated) I still change it once a year to be safe. My car only sees 110 Synoco or 116 Torco fuels with no issues. Now my wide band may not like it a lot more since its a bosch (Crap) sensor but it just went in there last week so only time will tell. I may change that one to a denzo if I can find the same style and solve that problem to
I love my race gas! 26-27 PSI and no knock! Cant do that with anything else other than an alky system
I love my race gas! 26-27 PSI and no knock! Cant do that with anything else other than an alky system
You sure about that ??
thunderace31
Banned
- Joined
- Sep 2, 2002
100%
on torco 116 I have run as much as 27lbs of boost I have alky on the car to and its not set to come on till I reach 26lbs or more so there aint much alky being sprayed at that point
