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Eagle Talon DSM cars

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smallv6

Still in Block Learn Mode
Joined
Jul 20, 2002
Messages
527
I asked about these cars awhile back for a freind of mine who is looking for one of these. He claims that there are tons of guy's running 10's with these cars and he has sent me some video's to back this up. My question is, If these cars are so great and easy to modify why dont more people do it? He seems to think this is easily done, I think you would need major mods and lot's of bucks.
I have yet to see one at the track I go to and with me running low 12's in street trim (running in street class cars) a car faster than mine including a built 350 camaro spraying a 100HP shot of NOS.

www.buschurracing.com
I was provided this link to a car that runs 8's but that is a trailored in shell, it is not "street class"

I can remember a few Stealth cars at the track which ran 15's

I am not saying the Turbo Buicks are the fastest cars in the world and that nothing is better, I am just wondering if it is so easy to mod these DSM cars to run low 12's and beyond why dont more people do it??

Also if our cast iron stock v6 blocks can handle up to 600HP at the flywheel before breaking things, how can they claim to handle 700+ HP??

Thanks
 
The DSM's are easy to get into the 12's Takes about the same as Buick,exhaust fuel pump ,and boost controoler etc. Now 10,s that requires alot more, Buschur's 8 sec. DSM powered Conquest has been observed on the streets of Wakeman,where he lives and has his shop! His race car has ran in the mid 7's Buschur built my son's motor for his street car and it dynoed 604 h.p. at the wheels with out not nitrous. The DSM engine's are very durable and repond well to mods. The transmisson is the weak link but that can be beefed up also. John Shepperds DSM was just in Hot Rod magazine and he runs 8's and has been known to play on the streets also. There are quite a few Talons running 11's and 12's around here and a few but not a ton in 10's The import crowd is aware of the DSM they are alot like the BUICK's it's not a Honduh so they get no respect. Not huge market as like the Buick they were made a few years and discontinued.
 
Thanks for the info Randy
After a little searching for 10 second combo's in those cars I found a guy that has $27,000.00 invested minus the machining work on the block to achieve this goal.
That makes sence to me, It's all about how much you are willing to spend.
 
Wow 27k?:eek: My son bought his motor dynoed and ready to drop in for a lot less than that! The motor had 2 passes {9.62} and two dyno pulls for less than 11k!
 
Originally posted by Randy Greenoe
Wow 27k?:eek: My son bought his motor dynoed and ready to drop in for a lot less than that! The motor had 2 passes {9.62} and two dyno pulls for less than 11k!

Yeah, sounds to me like that guy got hosed if your son can hit 9's
for under $11,000.00

I guess those DSM cars are superior to the buicks, My question is why do we still continue to stick with the buicks?
I do because of the size and style of the car, but it seems to me if for 11 grand + the cost of the car you can have a 10 second daily driver why doesn't everybody sell the buicks and buy a DSM car?

Are we back into what you said earlier about weak tranny's and costly to fix?

I am just curious as to why more people are not into these cars
It cant be the price, when people are dumping 20+ grand for stage II's Why even bother?
 
Mabey its the looks,power,comfort, class, ect,ect................;)

That is like asking, why dosent everybody wear the same shoes........ :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

If you ever get a buick, you will understand........;)

Matt:cool:
 
Plenty of people do build the dsm's. They are fun cars, and the first generation dsm's can be had for fairly cheap and as several others said,are easy to modify. People don't build Buick's because they think they are the ultimate car or anything, just because it's different. If everyone was going for maximum bang for the buck, everyone would be building small block chevy's.;)
 
Smallv6, for 11K + cost of the car you can easily have a 10 second TR! There are plenty of stock block TRs making 600-700hp at the flyhweel reliably (some are making 700-800hp at the flywheel without any problems) and a few of the fastest TSM cars like Dave Bamford and Roy Garcia are making 900hp at the flywheel:eek:

The DSM cars are NOT superior to the Buicks when we're talking about drag racing and they are NOT any cheaper to build (keep in mind I know a guy down here with one that runs 10's and I know how much he spent)...... The one advantage I see with the DSM cars is they are lighter from the factory and easier to take weight out of, but other than that there is nothing that makes them superior (especially cost)!!!
 
Originally posted by LeesGN
Plenty of people do build the dsm's. They are fun cars, and the first generation dsm's can be had for fairly cheap and as several others said,are easy to modify. People don't build Buick's because they think they are the ultimate car or anything, just because it's different. If everyone was going for maximum bang for the buck, everyone would be building small block chevy's.;)

Exactly!DSM's are neat cars ,but I still prefer the Buick. Different strokes for different folks. Two Buicks,two Talons and an SRT. I guess we would qualify for the something different crowd.
 
Here is some real food for thought........

According to this website www.shepracing.com John Shepherd's AWD Eagle Talon (DSM) that runs 8.76 @165mph only weighs 2650lbs now Cal Hartline's single turbo S2 Buick currently featured in GMHTP magazine (March '04 issue) weighs 3400lbs and has run 8.57 @159mph....... Which one do you think is making more power??

My good ol' HP calculator http://home.neo.rr.com/jturrin/calchp1.htm says John is making 960hp at the flywheel and Cal is making 1200hp.... Now I wonder how fast Cal would be if his car weighed 2650lbs? Get the point? It's all about power to weight and our cars make more power however they are heavier...... Hell Dave Bamford and Roy Garcia's stock block cars are making around 900hp at the flywheel (almost as much as Mr. Shepherd) but because they weigh 3400-3550lbs they are not as fast as Mr. Shepherd's DSM, but if Shepherd's DSM weighed 3500lbs I know he definitely would not be as fast as he is now:D
 
DSM's are the ****.

I just picked up a 1G AWD as a daily.

Little something to hold me over until I find another Buick. :D
 
They can be pretty quick, and they'll work well on the street, but I think they have a few drawbacks.
They are hard on transfer cases and trannies. They are no less expensive to build than anything else.

The local, self-professed "King of Imports" got his @ss handed to him by a certain grey Regal Limited Turbo-T last Saturday night. ;)This race was setup for about 2 weeks. He showed up with slicks at all corners. The Regal (running ~25psi, good gas and ET Streets) came out side by side with the DSM. The little import went to 2nd gear...and it was all over. The TR took the win by about 6 cars. The kid wants a rematch after he fixes a (supposed) tranny problem.
What he doesn't know is the TR will be coming out hard in a month or so. :D
S.
 
I've read that to get these cars into the 12's is pretty easy. 16G or 20G turbo, fuel pump, exhaust and intercooler/injectors/ECM reprogram/clutch upgrade. Easy low 12's if not high 11's.

Past that point is where you need to go into the motor and the stock pistons can't keep up. Also as noted the transmission needs upgrading internally as it just can't handle the power.

It is like most turbo cars. Once you get to a certain point you get major diminishing returns per dollar to get into the next et category. Those little Mitsu 4 bangers are definately stout though.

Bushur uses turbo/NOS to get the job done. If you watch the in car video that car really scoots on the top end and is a handul in the first 2 gears. Driving with 1 hand on the wheel and shifting I've got a lot of respect for the guy.

I like our GN engines as with stock block/crank/rods, upgraded cam/pistons, and massaged stock heads/intake/TB/headers you can go easy 10's. Buick engineers did their homework on this motor. Modern electronics make it all possible to control the beast safely at a cost effective price as well.

-GNX7
 
GNX7,Buschur is a very good driver! He also drives Ron Lumans 7 second Buick,he is an excellent wheel man in that also.
 
I've owned two DSM's.

One thing I like about them is there are plenty of parts from both the junkyard and the dealer.

Secondly I l like them because they are a underdog (4 cylinders) just like the V6's were.

Thirdy, because the don't get respect from the Honda crowd, just like TR's never got the respect they deserved.

Fourthly, because they are a turbo car and year of experence with TR's will help you with the DSM's. Boost is boost in most cases. Bob Bailey and Mike Licht has stuff out for the DSM's right now (translators and LS1 MAF) so there is some development going on.

The only things I didn't like about them were the weak transmisson, timing belt problems (when you replace the belt, do everything. It'll cost you about 300 in parts), lifter tap (higher mileage cars) and i wish they would have a little more torque on the bottom end.

anyone know if the 2g's got the crank walk problem resolved??

http://www.dsmtalk.com/
http://www.dsmtuners.com/
http://www.dsm.org/
 
My friend has a DSM that runs 14's he dosent have much done to it but it seems to cause alot of problems for him. Its never running right becuase he beats on it all the time.
 
Thank you everyone for all the reply's. There is a lot of information there. I myself own an 87 Buick GN that I love, It was and still is way ahead of it's time.

For those guy's getting 10's out of a 4 cylinder is amazing.
But I figured that 8 second one needed help with the NOS.

I give those DSM guy's credit they are going fast
I just like the fact I can actually fit comfortably in mine.
 
Originally posted by jake616
I am very interested in seeing where this discussion leads. I have been ina few arguments over me purchasing a TB or a DSM (Diamond Star Motors) car.. :(

http://www.dsmtuners.com/model-guide/
http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/recipes/

Let's sayf you dont care what you drive and just want pure speed and are looking at the most for your money.

good shape Turbo Regal = $7000.00 (six cylinder)
good shape eagle talon= $3000.00 (four cylinder)
Invest $11,000.00 in each car

Regal=$18,000.00
Eagle Talon=$14000.00

you save $4,000.00 with the Talon and get the same results with 2 less cylinders.

Providing the tranny and other various things dont explode.
But hey you could take that savings and get a good tranny.
 
I like to think I have the best of both worlds.....I've been driving, modifying, and breaking DSM's for over 10 years now, and just got my first Turbo Buick last summer....both cars are completely different animals and look forward to my commute to work or my trip to the track in either car. DSM build quality is a little low in comparison to most "imports", however I now drive a Galant vr-4....same drivetrain and engine as any turbo/awd dsm. The build quality is a bit better, I would recommend a vr-4 over any eclipse or talon. the doors shut with authority and all the electronics work to this day. my talons always had the odd door panel or body panel fall off, or windows that didn't work, etc. The only downside to the galant is that there aren't enough around.....2000 in 91 and 1000 in 92.....well worth the trouble if you can find one though. The GN was driven daily as soon as I finished my build-up of the car over the summer.....fresh motor, turbo, converter, etc. etc. and I have to say dollar for dollar, the GN is going a bit faster than the Galant is with less money spent. The galant is on winter duty now, as the GN is pretty useless and unsafe in the wet nevermind the snow we have been getting. There is alot to be said about the beauty of AWD, handling and traction are second to none with very minimal investment. I also go out on purpose in a snowstorm. It's a beautiful thing.....anyway, back to my point....both cars f-'in rock!!! :D People look at me funny when I blow they're doors off with a 4-door grocery getter, or with my quiet unsuspecting "monte carlo" HAHAHAHA

PS....I can only speak for what I have seen....there are a handful of 10 sec. street cars in NJ, and just recently a local put down over 500hp on a stock block w/ PUMP gas....check out this site's top 10-

www.nj.dsm.org
 
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