eng stopped, won't turn over

[bufs86gn]

1. Out for a Sunday ride in My 25k mile all original 86gn. Its a cool day and I drive about 5 miles to auto parts store. Running good, you gotta love this car! . No idiot lights showing.
2. Park for 10 mnutes, in the store&out. Insert ign key and no eng turnover, no start. Idiot lights for "oil/choke", and" battery" remain on when ign is on(don't think Ive seen this before).
3. Pop the hood, elec fan is not on...come to think it wasn't on when I parked. Radiator cover is too hot to touch, plenum to hot to touch. Open radiatior, yes there is water, but not boiling over.
4. Thinking some ECM codes are blocking me, I disconnect battery. I wait 1 hr. Car cools down. Same thing...no start.
5. I give up and call for help. Attempt to use power door lock, but it doesn't work(hear relay clicking). Check lights and elect, but appears to have power. (later after dragging car home at nite, man that hurts, with lights on, battery shows 12.3 v.)
6. Now home, I realized I must have wiped the ECM trouble codes, but attempt to get reading anyway. I get the blinking "12"(ECM is alive!) but no codes.
7. Any ideas out there???????????????????????????????????????

 

[Turbo T/A 1543]

Could be a multitude of things, but I'm putting my money on either a bad connection at the battery or starter, or a battery with no cranking amps. Good Luck!

 

[scottyb]

Battery died.

 

[bufs86gn]

battery ok, whats next

1. Thanks for the tips, but I don't think its the battery.
2.Bat terminals were just cleaned, and I got under car checked cable at starter...its not corroded and very clean. I Put my good 15 amp charger on bat for 2-3hrs, and battery is now showing 13.2v. I don't know how to check battery amp (got a radio shack multimeter).
3. Inserted key and try'd start....no change. Idiot lights still reading as before. No engine turnover. Also, p/door lcks still not working(makes relay clicking sound).
4. Seems like its got full power at battery, but no change....still a mistery or is that misery.

 

[Pony Killer]

Does the solenoid click while trying to start. If so, like stated before, you may have a battery problem. To be positive you have no battery problem, take it to someone who has a VAT (volts amps tester) and have them do a battery draw test. you can do the test at home but i dont remember how right now. If you have a Auto Zone near by they can do this for free and takes less than a few mins. (i know, i used to work for Vato Zone.) If this isnt the case, then reply back and maybe some of us can figure something else out.

I just remembered the test. Turn on your lights, brights, blower motor full blast, this sould be enough load to test with. with the car off, turn all these components on and put your mulimeter on the batt. Only test for 15 sec, volts should not drop below 9.6v. you have to do this with a fully charged batt. 12.6v is fully charged. it cant be.1 less but can be more than 12.6v. it it is more as in 13v or more, turn lights on for a few mins to take off the surface charge which is usually 13v or more after runnig the car or charging it. I hope this helps.

 

[bufs86gn]

PK, thanks for the tip. I'll let you know the results.

1.My GM troubleshoot list says the 9.6v test is supposed to be taken at the ignition swch or the solnoid to help ditermine if one or the other is bad(assuming the voltage is at least 12.6v.) So thanks for the suggestion.
2.This makes me think the problem is in the neutral/safety swch, solinoid, or connecting wires. (I'm not getting any clicking when I turn the key).
3. Going to check out these for possible problems... thanks for the help, I'll post the result.

 

[turbo]

Had the same happen. It was a dead cell. Jumping doesn't work, putting another battery in series, charging, none work. All readings will show a charged battery, 12v +.

I even changed the starter and finally found the simple fix.

You have to pull it and try a new battery.

 

[bufs86gn]

Not the battery, not the starter!!!

For those who are following this, Ive made a little progress:
1. I realized that I could test the battery and starter by simply using a jumper wire at the starter(from small terminal which is ignition to big terminal which is bat cable).
2. With the ignition off, I did a jump on the starter terminals and the starter immediately cranked vigorously. Ok, the starter and battery are good.
3. Next I did the same test with the ignition on. The engine immediately started..........a good feeling!! So now we know the starter, battery, and engine are good.
4. But why is the starter not cranking when the ignition key is turned? With a helper turning the key, I did a simple light bulb test at the starter and there was no current at the ign terminal on the starter.
5. The starter not cranking becaue no current is flowing from the ignition switch to the ign terminal on the starter. This means the problem is the ignition switch or the wiring.
6. The ignition switch is mounted on top of the lower part of the steering column...you have to unbolt and drop the steering column from the dash to get at it. Yea, you thought the ignition switch was that thing you stick the key into.......wrong.
7. Using a simple bulb tester, I checked the ignition switch and it is ok, that is current flows through the switch to the starter wire when the key is turned. That means something is wrong with the wire from ingition swch to starter. Everything is all apart and thats where I left it. Finding/following that wire is gonna be a real b..... of a job.

 

[BBBAD86GN]

Your car

CHECK YOUR THREE FUSABLE LINKS OFF THE STARTER, IF GOOD FOLLOW THE PURPLE IGN WIRE FOR POWER.
HAD THE SAME CRAP HAPPEN TO MY CAR IT WAS THE BULK HEAD ON THE FIRE WALL AND THE FUSE PANEL CONNECTION, WIRES CORRODED AND CAUSED A SHORT.
HOPE THIS HELPS....

Ray

 

[WIKEDV6]

Double check to make sure that thing is in park all the way

Prasad

 

[bufs86gn]

Fixed the no start problem, FYI.

Here's the solution to my no start problem.

1. Since the battery, solinoid, and starter all checked out, it had to be something in the wiring or ignition.
2. As suggested by another member, I checked the wiring. Actually I unhooked the battery and then hooked a hot lead to the Purple wire(w/white stripe) wire at the ignition swch on the column(sorry you have to drop the column). There was current in the purple wire comming off the ignit swch.
3. However, testing the wires in the eng compartment, comming through the firewall, nothing was hot. This is fun since you have to remove the wiper motor for access to the wires coming thru the firewall. Again nothing hot.
4. The purple wire was hot down to the fuse block where a mass of wires go through the firewall behind the fuse block. What a pain in the a..... to undo.
5.So looks like the problem is on the inside right where the purple wire disappears behind the fuse block.
6. So I remove the fuse block only to discover the purple wire doesn't go thru the firewall, but runs up and over to an ivory colored connector box..... Actually I didn't even have to unhook the fuse block...now you tell me.
7. Thats it, the ivory colored relay is bad. It shows the following ink printed data: IEC 1616422 3179. I pulled the relay off and with the ignition key on, crossed the red and purple contacts and the engine immediately cranked and started. Victory. ..... But God what a long way arround to discover this problem.
8. Ok now I gotta find a new relay. Meanwhile, I can start my 86 with a screwdriver.

 

[Red Regal T]

Where exactly is this ivory colored relay located?

 

[bufs86gn]

The IVORY RELAY.......final and full story!!!!!!!

To John and others who may wonder where the relay is located.

1. The ivory relay is located just above the brake pedal arm under the dash, it is not attached, simply hanging, floating in the mass of wires above the fuse block. It is all plastic about 1.25 in x 1.25 in. with four wires (purple/wh stripe,purple, red, and turoquise).

2. Mistery continued. I went to local NAPA store, they couldn't identify the relay from numbers on the relay. And they could not find any listing for a relay inline between ignition switch and the starter (Searching on "ignition relay"was the problem I guess).

3. Went to Mr. Goodwrench at local Buick dealer. Ta Da, simple. Its a "thieft deterrent device". Cost $16.47, not in stock, but be here in 3 days if you want it........do you want it Mr Bufs86gn?? ah.........lemme think.....yea...I guess I want it!!!!

4. So now looking back on this sojourn, I guess the magic clue up front, for those who read the whole damm story, was the fact that the pwr door lock(part of the "thieft deterrent system") misterously stopped working at same time ignition/start wouldn't work.

5. Lesson to fellow members from this way to long stupid story:
If you insert and turn key, but get no engine turn over(and if no clicking from low battery or bad solonoid and your battery is good)....then check your power door locks. If the pdls don't work you just may have a bad "thief deterrent device"....which will prevent the ignition/start circuit from working.

5. So I'm waiting for my "thieft deterrent device". And I'm happy I figured it out with some low tech detective work.