Engine apart at machine shop. What to tell them at this point? Pointers? Tips? *pics*

[phillyturbosix]

Using a new machine shop for me anyhow.... This guy has done several turbo Buick engines and the guys who had them done are beating the balls out of them and all is well but this machine shop is use to low budget builds due to the area they are in but they have been around for a long long time. I just want to make sure I don't miss out on telling them about any pet peeves these engines have and any additional information I can give them about the machine work on this 109 block would be great.

Long story short it was making metal. Damage was #3 cam lobe just about round again and spun almost all the mains. Scroll down for a nice shot of the pick up!

Going for a stock rebuild with stock turbo but I want to step it up here and there where I can and where it makes sense without wasting on parts I don't need. If this engine ever went down the track 11.0-11.5 would be the only numbers I would push it to if at all.

I have a new front cover from Earl Brown going on. Looks like the cam was walking around in there. This is an engine with around 80K on it. Does this look normal??

Now for the block. I always hear about the cam gear walking into the block and causing damage. How can you measure this and tell if there is damage there? Here are some pics does it look like it's been hit bad?

To me there don't look to be any damage there. But I'm not sure how to mic and or measure this area for extreme damage where something needs to be done.

Stock crank damage...

 

[phillyturbosix]

Think is was making metal?

What do I tell them about the oil passage ways? Just clean them out? Is any attention needed there?

Main caps. Just use new bolts or studs? I'm going with a hydraulic cam. On the cam, mains, and rod bearings they offer coated ones. Worth it? I'm also going to toss in forged TRW pistons. Just looking for some input and ideas while I'm at this point in the game. Thanks for any input!

 

[phillyturbosix]

Also for the cam they use Melling. Anyone use them? Good? Bad? I may just go with the Comp cam grind for these cars. Any other input?

 

[Steve V]

Front cover looks normal for 80k. Use the update roller cam button.

Block "appears" ok but I can't tell about the cam,I bet it's good. Run your finger nail see if there are groove where the cam rides. Have the bores miced and reuse the stock pistons if possible.

The crank may need a .010/.010 if the grooves are deep,if not a polish will do.

Where you beating on this thing hard??

 

[Grumpy]

Soooo... you brought your engine to a machine shop and YOU want to tell them how to do their job

 

[phillyturbosix]

Front cover looks normal for 80k. Use the update roller cam button.

Block "appears" ok but I can't tell about the cam,I bet it's good. Run your finger nail see if there are groove where the cam rides. Have the bores miced and reuse the stock pistons if possible.

The crank may need a .010/.010 if the grooves are deep,if not a polish will do.

Where you beating on this thing hard??

Block came out good. #3 cam lobe was round for the most part! Spun some rods so I think crank is no good. Actually have a std/std low mile stock crank on the way just to be safe. Wasn't beating it hard just a long story!

Soooo... you brought your engine to a machine shop and YOU want to tell them how to do their job

Damn right might be some old bastard like you working there I have to put in check! :biggrin: This guy did a few Buick engines and they are all out there being beat on but any of those little tips and pointers I can give him I figure is a plus for me and my engine! :smile:

 

[Grumpy]

Damn right might be some old bastard like you working there I have to put in check! :biggrin: This guy did a few Buick engines and they are all out there being beat on but any of those little tips and pointers I can give him I figure is a plus for me and my engine! :smile:

hahahaha... welll I would do exactly what ya wanted and if something happened you KNOW what I would say

 

[pacecarta]

youd do better to bring him a set of rods
those definitely need to be reconditioned on the big end

for the cost to recon you might as well go brandy new from weber
or.... ive got a nice set that had an easy life

spun mains , plan for a line bore too

 

[phillyturbosix]

youd do better to bring him a set of rods
those definitely need to be reconditioned on the big end

for the cost to recon you might as well go brandy new from weber
or.... ive got a nice set that had an easy life

spun mains , plan for a line bore too

Got a low mile set of rods in route for the build so he can pick the best ones... Think it needs to be line bored? Damn might as well throw in some billet mains while I'm there!

 

[pacecarta]

Damn might as well throw in some billet mains while I'm there!

where do you stop then ?, the well if im gonna do this i might as well ... before you know it you're into a fully forged tsm build.. ... lol! :biggrin:

 

[phillyturbosix]

Trying to keep the breaks on! Just trying to keep the common things that fail covered. I can't let it snowball. Stock turbo and stock boost will make this a long lasting happy engine

 

[Just a Six??]

Get the shop to use screw plugs & not stock plugs for oil passages by the cam on front & back. Make sure they understand they cant go too deep. Also if line boring anyways might as well throw in 2 centre caps. The updated roller cam button is a great idea as well.

 

[phillyturbosix]

Thanks again guys for all the input! That's one thing I love about these cars is the people that own them and are into them! Since I posted here I've had PM's, e-mails, and phone calls about this build with some awesome input helping me out. I appreciate it very much thanks! Just trying to make a nice strong budget stock rebuild.

The builder likes this Melling cam. While they make great oil pumps I don't want something that is going to eat that lobe quick. Keep in mind this car is going to get maybe 1000 street miles on it a year with 2 oil changes every year. ZDDP every time as well a good oil.

 

[WkillGS]

Jim, I had my 66 Buick 401 done at Markovitch in Warminster. About 10 miles South of Kirban. Good guys, they're familiar with the V6 too.
Align bore will require a 'tight' timing chain set.
Agree on the threaded plugs for the oil galleries.
Rod reconditioning is a standard rebuild procedure, especially if you are replacing the bolts. Used ones will require careful measurement anyway.

I'm also doing a V6 now...
Who makes the 'updated' cam bumper? I have a Melling one... is that it?
And what do the V6's like for main/rod bearing clearances?

 

[wickedtt]

Thanks again guys for all the input! That's one thing I love about these cars is the people that own them and are into them! Since I posted here I've had PM's, e-mails, and phone calls about this build with some awesome input helping me out. I appreciate it very much thanks! Just trying to make a nice strong budget stock rebuild.

The builder likes this Melling cam. While they make great oil pumps I don't want something that is going to eat that lobe quick. Keep in mind this car is going to get maybe 1000 street miles on it a year with 2 oil changes every year. ZDDP every time as well a good oil.

If I was you I would have taken it to Dan Smith in Camden NJ not too far from you at all.

 

[phillyturbosix]

If I was you I would have taken it to Dan Smith in Camden NJ not too far from you at all.

Used him last engine build. I like to spread it around if you know what I mean...

 

[Just a Six??]

Who makes the 'updated' cam bumper? I have a Melling one... is that it?

Yes its a Melling part number.

 

[thrlskr]

Jim,

Crank and rods should be here by Mon/Tue. Sounds like MAR is going to build you a stout motor. That's where I would be taking my motor had I not gone balls deeps with the 109 stroker...keep us updated with pics.

Bill

 

[phillyturbosix]

Jim,

Crank and rods should be here by Mon/Tue. Sounds like MAR is going to build you a stout motor. That's where I would be taking my motor had I not gone balls deeps with the 109 stroker...keep us updated with pics.

Bill

I know Bill! I cut you off and went to the man himself the king of engines.. Russ M and asked him about the crank MAR is for the budget build. Your building the rocket ship build for your car so your in the best hands there could be for that kinda build!

 

[V8Assassin]

where do you stop then ?, the well if im gonna do this i might as well ... before you know it you're into a fully forged tsm build.. ... lol! :biggrin:

LMAO! Sounds familiar!!!