Engine rebuild Questions?

[turbo39151]

I am contemplating a rebuild of my bottom end (currently at 160k) and thought I might buy a bit of insurance with some billet caps. I am wondering if you guys might give me a few ideas where I can buy decent quality stuff as inexpensively as possible.

Additionally, I was considering some forged pistons to replace the stockers. I know JE is the good stuff but is there a drawback to using a cheaper brand like TRW?

I know these engines can get quite pricey but I plan to do as much of my own work as possible to keep the price in check. Any and all advise is appreciated.

TIA

 

[87TurboGN]

Here is my build sheet mid to high 9's:

Part Description Cost


Stroker Crankshaft CAT231A 3.625 $450.00
10 over JE Pistons 8:5:1 Compression $480.00
JE H.Duty Wrist Pins $100.00
3.810 Ring Set $100.00
RJC Girdle
RJC Underdrive Pulley
70 MM Accufab $500.00
Buick 6.350x.927 K1 Rods $490.00
V6 Buick Main Bearings
Federal-Mogul Wide Journal Rod Bearings
BHJ Internal Balancer w/Trigger Wheel ENGBHJ-int or ATI $405.00
JW Flywheel (SFI Certified) JW93007 $200.00
Champion GN-1 14 Bolt Aluminum Heads HE100-14 $1,600.00
Push Rods Guides $150.00
ARP Head Studs $150.00
Scorpion Roller Rocker Set Up $300.00
Head Porting $500.00
Billet Roller Comp Cam (If Needed) 234/234 580 lift $350.00
Comp Push Rods $85.00
H&R Motor Mounts $200.00
LT1 Starter $135.00
DLS External oil system $550.00
CSR Trans Sheild $280.00
SX Fuel Pump $500.00
SX Regulator $144.00
SX Fuel Filter $80.00
Fuel Cell $250.00
Lines and Fittings $500.00
Champion Alt Bracket $250.00
RJC Underdrive Racing Pulley $149.00
MSD Voltage Booster $305.00
Aluminum Oil Pan $625.00
Meizere Water Pump, Inlet, and Relay $438.00
TA Stainless HEADERS $1,025.00
Header Ceramic Coating - NitroPlate $200.00
Champion Fuel Rails for Stock Intake $249.00
Cometic Head Gaskets $150.00
Limit Engineering GTQ-70S TURBO .85AR $1,450.00
4 Inch Cold Air Kit Polished $285.00
Fast Fuel System With extras $2,355.00
GN Performance Radiator $450.00
Build Labor for Engine $1,200.00
Coolant Tank $35.00
Vacuum Block $42.00
200 AMP Alenator $450.00
HR Sway Bar $550.00
Moroso Front Lowering Springs
Adjustable Drag Shocks
Mosler Axles, Welded Spool
Ultimate Diff Cover with Supports
Stock Ring Gear 3.42
3.5 inch Down Pipe and Coating - $585

Cost $19,292.00

All purchased through Kip Asplund, Cotton's, DLS, and Hartline. Jegs for all the fittings and non buick specific stuff.

Billet caps - Kip can get you some. Kip on the board

 

[turbo39151]

Holy crap! You really went all out! Looks awesome though!:biggrin:

I don't want or need anything like that. It's way too much for my application. All I want is a mild upgrade over stock without breaking the bank.

BTW, you have pricing for nearly everything-do you recall the pricing on the caps?

Thanks

 

[87TurboGN]

Holy crap! You really went all out! Looks awesome though!:biggrin:

I don't want or need anything like that. It's way too much for my application. All I want is a mild upgrade over stock without breaking the bank.

BTW, you have pricing for nearly everything-do you recall the pricing on the caps?

Thanks

I did not use Billet caps, I already had a Billet RJC Girdle that worked perfectly, so I kept it. Taking her to the track for her initial run next friday...It is pissed off on the street.

 

[Amelio]

I am contemplating a rebuild of my bottom end (currently at 160k) and thought I might buy a bit of insurance with some billet caps. I am wondering if you guys might give me a few ideas where I can buy decent quality stuff as inexpensively as possible.

Additionally, I was considering some forged pistons to replace the stockers. I know JE is the good stuff but is there a drawback to using a cheaper brand like TRW?

I know these engines can get quite pricey but I plan to do as much of my own work as possible to keep the price in check. Any and all advise is appreciated.

TIA

Why are considering a rebuild at 160k? Is there a problem or do you just want to freshen/beef up the bottom end?

The reason I ask is depending upon the condition the engine should still be in good shape with 160k. I had a car with over that and it ran really good. Also my uncles car had over that and saw the track a good bit. That car currently has over 300k on it, yeah it could use a rebuild but still runs great!

 

[odium]

Here is my build sheet mid to high 9's:

Part Description Cost


Stroker Crankshaft CAT231A 3.625 $450.00
10 over JE Pistons 8:5:1 Compression $480.00
JE H.Duty Wrist Pins $100.00
3.810 Ring Set $100.00
RJC Girdle
RJC Underdrive Pulley
70 MM Accufab $500.00
Buick 6.350x.927 K1 Rods $490.00
V6 Buick Main Bearings
Federal-Mogul Wide Journal Rod Bearings
BHJ Internal Balancer w/Trigger Wheel ENGBHJ-int or ATI $405.00
JW Flywheel (SFI Certified) JW93007 $200.00
Champion GN-1 14 Bolt Aluminum Heads HE100-14 $1,600.00
Push Rods Guides $150.00
ARP Head Studs $150.00
Scorpion Roller Rocker Set Up $300.00
Head Porting $500.00
Billet Roller Comp Cam (If Needed) 234/234 580 lift $350.00
Comp Push Rods $85.00
H&R Motor Mounts $200.00
LT1 Starter $135.00
DLS External oil system $550.00
CSR Trans Sheild $280.00
SX Fuel Pump $500.00
SX Regulator $144.00
SX Fuel Filter $80.00
Fuel Cell $250.00
Lines and Fittings $500.00
Champion Alt Bracket $250.00
RJC Underdrive Racing Pulley $149.00
MSD Voltage Booster $305.00
Aluminum Oil Pan $625.00
Meizere Water Pump, Inlet, and Relay $438.00
TA Stainless HEADERS $1,025.00
Header Ceramic Coating - NitroPlate $200.00
Champion Fuel Rails for Stock Intake $249.00
Cometic Head Gaskets $150.00
Limit Engineering GTQ-70S TURBO .85AR $1,450.00
4 Inch Cold Air Kit Polished $285.00
Fast Fuel System With extras $2,355.00
GN Performance Radiator $450.00
Build Labor for Engine $1,200.00
Coolant Tank $35.00
Vacuum Block $42.00
200 AMP Alenator $450.00
HR Sway Bar $550.00
Moroso Front Lowering Springs
Adjustable Drag Shocks
Mosler Axles, Welded Spool
Ultimate Diff Cover with Supports
Stock Ring Gear 3.42
3.5 inch Down Pipe and Coating - $585

Cost $19,292.00

All purchased through Kip Asplund, Cotton's, DLS, and Hartline. Jegs for all the fittings and non buick specific stuff.

Billet caps - Kip can get you some. Kip on the board

Wow, it adds up quickly, doesn't it?

 

[turbo39151]

As far as I know the engine doesn't need rebuilt but since I had pulled the heads and nearly everything in the engine bay, I figured for a few bucks more I could refresh the engine and ensure that it will continue to run perfectly for many years to come. Maybe push a little more boost now and again

 

[turbofabricator]

With the headds off, measure the ridge at the top of the cylinder. If there isn't a ridge, just leave it alone, or re-ring and bearing it. Nothing wrong with the stock pistons. (other than they weight a TON) The stock pistons can take just about anything you can throw at them (well tuned). The crank might just need a simple polish and -.001" bearings. OR......it might need to be bored/honed and crank turned..........
TRW pistons work well, especially if you upgrade the wrist pins to tool steel lightweight pins. Be sure to have the engine machined by a competent engine builder such as DLS near you. Do NOT let just any machinist touch your block or heads. It will be a HUGE step backwards if someone that isn't familiar with a Turbo Buick machines your parts.

 

[Jeff Rand]

Here is my build sheet mid to high 9's:

Part Description Cost


Stroker Crankshaft CAT231A 3.625 $450.00
10 over JE Pistons 8:5:1 Compression $480.00
JE H.Duty Wrist Pins $100.00
3.810 Ring Set $100.00
RJC Girdle
RJC Underdrive Pulley
70 MM Accufab $500.00
Buick 6.350x.927 K1 Rods $490.00
V6 Buick Main Bearings
Federal-Mogul Wide Journal Rod Bearings
BHJ Internal Balancer w/Trigger Wheel ENGBHJ-int or ATI $405.00
JW Flywheel (SFI Certified) JW93007 $200.00
Champion GN-1 14 Bolt Aluminum Heads HE100-14 $1,600.00
Push Rods Guides $150.00
ARP Head Studs $150.00
Scorpion Roller Rocker Set Up $300.00
Head Porting $500.00
Billet Roller Comp Cam (If Needed) 234/234 580 lift $350.00
Comp Push Rods $85.00
H&R Motor Mounts $200.00
LT1 Starter $135.00
DLS External oil system $550.00
CSR Trans Sheild $280.00
SX Fuel Pump $500.00
SX Regulator $144.00
SX Fuel Filter $80.00
Fuel Cell $250.00
Lines and Fittings $500.00
Champion Alt Bracket $250.00
RJC Underdrive Racing Pulley $149.00
MSD Voltage Booster $305.00
Aluminum Oil Pan $625.00
Meizere Water Pump, Inlet, and Relay $438.00
TA Stainless HEADERS $1,025.00
Header Ceramic Coating - NitroPlate $200.00
Champion Fuel Rails for Stock Intake $249.00
Cometic Head Gaskets $150.00
Limit Engineering GTQ-70S TURBO .85AR $1,450.00
4 Inch Cold Air Kit Polished $285.00
Fast Fuel System With extras $2,355.00
GN Performance Radiator $450.00
Build Labor for Engine $1,200.00
Coolant Tank $35.00
Vacuum Block $42.00
200 AMP Alenator $450.00
HR Sway Bar $550.00
Moroso Front Lowering Springs
Adjustable Drag Shocks
Mosler Axles, Welded Spool
Ultimate Diff Cover with Supports
Stock Ring Gear 3.42
3.5 inch Down Pipe and Coating - $585

Cost $19,292.00

All purchased through Kip Asplund, Cotton's, DLS, and Hartline. Jegs for all the fittings and non buick specific stuff.

Billet caps - Kip can get you some. Kip on the board

What is the purpose of wrapping the intercooler pipes?
Jeff

 

[turbo39151]

With the headds off, measure the ridge at the top of the cylinder. If there isn't a ridge, just leave it alone, or re-ring and bearing it. Nothing wrong with the stock pistons. (other than they weight a TON) The stock pistons can take just about anything you can throw at them (well tuned). The crank might just need a simple polish and -.001" bearings. OR......it might need to be bored/honed and crank turned..........
TRW pistons work well, especially if you upgrade the wrist pins to tool steel lightweight pins. Be sure to have the engine machined by a competent engine builder such as DLS near you. Do NOT let just any machinist touch your block or heads. It will be a HUGE step backwards if someone that isn't familiar with a Turbo Buick machines your parts.

I called DLS but 1. He's really busy, 2. He wasn't interested in a stock/mild rebuild and 3. He was talking some big $$$$ 4. Nearly every "Buick engine specialist" wants my first born and a few pints of blood to rebuild anything Buick! I know these cars are special but I just don't see where all of this expense comes from just to do some basic stuff.

I have spoken with a local machine shop that will turn and polish the crank if necessary, and install new bearings and rings and has stated basically what you have- ie: leave it alone if there are no issues. I was merely trying to be better informed as I figure if I'm already in there might as well do some preventative maintenance and upgrade whereever I can with out going crazy.

Thanks for the input BTW...

 

[Just a Six??]

Polish the crank, new bearings & put it back together! You could re-ring it but not needed unless your smoking oil on occasion & then I would. That a machine shop should be able to handle for you without breaking the bank.

 

[turbo39151]

Maybe this is a silly question but...

At what point is a rebuild considered a rebuild? (ie: if I polish the crank, install new bearings, new rings, new seals, & new freeeze plugs- is this considered a full rebuild or does everything need to be replaced?)- I've never had occassion to rebuild an engine an would like to know what the technicalities are.

 

[kh440]

depends on who you ask. Rebuild generally implies every piece is torn down, inspected, machined and/or replaced. If you're just wanting to do a basic refresh I have to go with the herd, with the exception of thoroughly inspect the cam and add new cam bearings.

 

[turbo39151]

I was going to do the cam stuff -forgot to write it down.

Thanks for the input.

Anyone else have an opinion as to what constitutes a full rebuild? (ie: if I were to sell the car doing a refresh as I am planning, would I able to say rebuilt or would the more correct term be refreshed? And would it make a difference or matter much?)

 

[87TurboGN]

What is the purpose of wrapping the intercooler pipes?
Jeff

I was testing it to see if it would lower my air temp going into the motor. Seemed like it did, but got fiberglass all over everythin, so I have taken it off.

 

[turbo39151]

New update:

Just went to the machine shop today. The crank is trashed and some of the rods are damaged as well.

So I guess it's gonna be time for a new crank (forged), new pistons and rods (forged) and a new cam as well.


I don't want to go crazy but I only want to build this thing once. I was planning on keeping the stock heads with new springs and a 3 angle valve job.

Trans will also be getting rebuilt...

Any other suggestions or recommendations. I know nothing about building engines. So, all input is welcome.

 

[1986TR]

i did my first 3.8 rebuild for my friend what i did was print out the spec sheets from gnttype and took it to a good machine shop i had used before.talked to the guy doing the work and told him to use the specs i took to him and told him that i would be double checking all the specs which i did (oil clearance) my friend has had no problems with it and it was a stock rebuilt nothing fancy.....i think most machine shops are not familiar with the turbo 3.8 but if you work with them by provinding the correct specs and they are willing to work with you i dont see a problem:biggrin:

 

[Just a Six??]

New update:

Just went to the machine shop today. The crank is trashed and some of the rods are damaged as well.

Any other suggestions or recommendations. I know nothing about building engines. So, all input is welcome.

Take it to someone who knows our engines & supply a Spec Sheet for them to follow. If the crank was trashed as you say then WHY is it Trashed???
Where are you located?

 

[turbo39151]

I purchased this car with 160k on the clock not running. Previous owner said it had a slight knock and then he parked it. He neglected to tell me that it was parked for 4 years until after I drove 6 hours from SE KY to E. VA to trailer it home.

When I got it home all of the vacuum lines were dry rotted and the car looked like it needed to be gone through before starting. I decided to pulle the engine to have it cleaned up a bit and then discovered that the TC bolts were loose (supposedly the source of knock)- I figured I'd just have the engine refreshed. I took it to the machine shop and they tore it down. The crank was way out of spec even at it's best point. There were grooves in the crank and the rods. They're going to tank and magnaflux the block and heads this week and then we'll go from there. (I have printed and taken the specs of the engine to them).

I wanted to take the engine to a "buick expert" but 1. there aren't any that I know of very close (my guy is ten minutes away and across the street from my office) 2. The "experts" I have talked to all want $5k for an engine rebuild and I'm not ready to spend that much money on an engine for a car I rarely drive 3. I understand that the "experts" ensure that the job is done right but I just cannot fathom a machine shop being in business for 20-30 years or more without being able to do some basic machine work. I know there is stuff that is not basic but I figure if I can read up enough and ask all the right questions and use the best possble components in my build, I should be able to accomplish a build on a more reasonable budget.

I do not race my cars so I suppose I don't really need to go overboard with Forged stuff but I figure it's better to build it right the first time. Besides, I'm in no rush... I just want to take my time and learn all I can so that I can make sure the job is done properly and within a reasonable budget.

 

[1986TR]

I AGRRE WITH YOU IF YOU HAVE A MACHINE SHOP WHO HAS BEEN AROUND 20 YRS I DONT SEE WHY THEY WOULD NOT BE ABEL TO DO SOLID WORK.BUT YOU ARE RIGHT YOU NEED TO DIRECT THEM AS FAR AS SPECS GO.AND YES READ ALOT AND ASK QUESTIONS GNTTYPE IS A GREAT SITE TO READ ON THIS.ALSO WHAT ARE YOURE GOALS H.P OR TRACK TIME?....I MYSELF DO NOT GO TO THE TRACK BUT I LOVE TO SMACK DOWN THAT MUSTANG IN THE STREET:biggrin: