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SignUp Now!Originally posted by strikeeagle
The beauty of a TR is that it'll run 12s on the street pretty much the way it came from the factory, and still be entirely liveable.
Originally posted by strikeeagle
Shall we all go buy Cobras now, or is it OK to own something else?
Look at it this way - it took Ford 17 years, 2 more cylinders, 50 more cubes, 2 more cams, 20 more valves, and a blower, among many other things, just to catch up. Even at that I'm not too worried that I'll encounter a Cobra running low 12s on the street, or high 10s at the track. Do some? Sure. Do most? Get off it.
The only Mustang I "lost" to ran a 9.50, had a chute out the back, and was an eyesore. On the street I've wasted so many it ain't worth the gas anymore...
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(If you have a fast Cobra, good for you!)
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Originally posted by Marc87GN
I actually took a video of a bone stock 03 Cobra running 12.61 @ 112 @ Atco. It was also over 90 degrees that day so I'm sure in 50 degree weather it might be quicker. Hell, that is still alot faster than any car in that price range or 10K more.
Regardless of how people feel about them, the fact is, they will probably stomp any car in that price range off of the showroom floor with tons of room for growth.
Originally posted by turboblue
can you walk into the ford dealership dish out $40 grand for a 2004 cobra with warranty? yes you can, but the only problem is when you pull out the lot and get to the light there is a 17 year old gn sittin in the next lane that wants to play STOP LIGHT BURNER and when its all said and done, all you can say to your wife is "i got to get some" $$odifications"
Originally posted by strikeeagle
I agree. You can't draw meaningful comparisons between a GN and a Cobra. You can say it seems plausible that a fair percentage of GNs cruising the streets in 2004 are well modified, and very quick, likely quicker than the average (non-Cobra) Mustang, and perhaps quicker than some stock or lightly modified Cobras. I think that speaks well for GNs. Is it magic? Hardly.
BTW, why would you opt for a ZO6 over a Cobra? Handling? Comfort? Chick appeal?
1965 Mustang 'Vert/289/Auto/Red/White/Black
1970 Boss 302/Yellow/Black/Shaker/Slats/F+R Spoilers
1989 LX 5.0 Hatch/Stick/Gray/Gray
Originally posted by strikeeagle
Well Marc,
I'm glad you like your whatever-it-is-after-you-added-a-turbo-to-a-car-that-in-40-years-has-never-come-with-a-V8-and-a-turbo, but it ain't a Mustang.
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Originally posted by gnxs
The ZO6 is a better overall package. I never bought cars for what chicks thought. I like that the ZO6 is light, handles great, and has some nice cu. in. to work with. I think the Cobra is easier to make fast to start with, but a properly-prepared ZO6 ultimately has more potential.
There are plenty of fast GNs roaming (or should I say stalking) the streets, but I think of the Cobra as a modern version of the GN. I explained my reasons in the other Cobra related thread in this section.
Originally posted by Marc87GN
I have to disagree with the potential statement. The Cobra comes with a fully forged engine and the ZO6 has cast pistons. I will, after seeing a few LS1s and 4.6s destroyed making power on stock internals, including my own, always be able to make much more power with forged internals. There have been many Cobras all over the 10s & one turbocharged that saw 8s, i believe, with the stock longblock because it can easily handle 600+ rwhp. Factory internals vs factory internals is not even close in terms of strength.
As far as plenty of fast GNs, I have not seen any on Long Island where I live. I roamed the streets & tracks for 4 years hoping to race one with my Turbo 99 GT and it happened only once in NJ on the way to GN vs Mustangs event. I raced a mustang, camaro, or C5 just about every day of the week, but never a GN on Long Island.
Originally posted by gnxs
Hence my statement about the Cobra being easy to make fast quickly (BTW, Cobra pistons are the weak point in the engine also). When I say the ZO6 ultimately can be made the better performer I had in mind:
- beefing the engine as needed (including to handle boost)
- overall performance (even though 1/4 mile was forefront in my mind)
I also think you underestimate the strength of an LS6 engine. Either way I won't argue and I'm not going to talk into it anymore since I don't own a ZO6.
Years ago (early-late 1990's) I regularly trekked from NJ to street race on LI. (Deer Park, Hempstead, etc.) Then I heard they were confiscating cars for street racing and I stayed away (mostly racing in northern NJ and Toms River). LI used to be a hot bed of street racing activity, including many GNs. I can't believe you can't find any races in LI. Maybe the new law enforcement measures have killed it.
Originally posted by Marc87GN
The Forged pistons can handle some serious abuse as well as the rods. There is very little if anything you can tell me about the 4.6 since I was involved with building and racing many including racing my 10 sec GT.
I spent a large amount of time on DPA considering it was 15 minutes( Now about 25) from my house. There were only LS1s and other mustangs that raced me until I threw the T-76 under the hood. I also probably went to the Long Island drag strip & made well over 100 passes in West hampton and rarely saw a GN. The LS6 is a stout engine, but after seeing dozens of shattered cast pistons, They don't compare to a good quality Forged piston.
Also your modifications are major dollars. There is a very famous Corvette shop near my house, Vette Doctors and the costs to work on those cars are real high.
Originally posted by gnxs
The friend I had in NJ that works with these cars is one of the owners of Cartek in Garfield, NJ. He has a multitude of 9 second and low 10 second street Corvette and F-body customers. Granted they are usually stroked motors with juice or FI, but they're usually 100% streetable, although expensive.
As to the Cobra motor, yes it's stout, but the pistons have been the first thing to go on high (600+ rwhp and up) applications.
I'm not a mechanic, so I don't know why, but I've heard enormous cylinder pressures are to blame. I didn't say the motor was weak, just that the pistons seem to be the weakest point. The rest of the motor is pretty much bulletproof.
I may have my Whipple on this weekend and should be pushing 575 or so rwhp on my street tune, we'll see how it holds up. I've got my fingers crossed.
Originally posted by Bob Cosby
The pistons in the 03/04 are very different from earlier years. Mainly, earlier years had hyperpathetic pistons, while 03/04 have forged units, along with much better rods.
I agree that when something does break, it is usually the pistons (skirt area and the pin area). That remains the weak link (though signficantly stronger than earlier years, as mentioned). 550-ish RWHP seems a good baseline for a long, reliable life. Some are running much higher numbers, but IMHO, they're getting into timebomb territory once they go beyond 600 RWHP.