Exhaust manifolds+twin turbos=800rwhp

[TURBOZ]

subject is kind of disceving. Im building a twin turbo kit for my 94 Lt1 camaro. Im putting two TE 63's on it. I was going to build headers but im looking at my stock manifolds that came with the car and they can be turned and used. I believe the ports are 1 5/8 on the manifold. What do you guys think of this idea? My motor is a 383 with AFR 220 heads and im shooting for 800+rwhp. Will these manifolds be to restrictive? Should I stick with the header build, or see if i can reach my goal with mainfolds?

Thanks

 

[rkreigh]

the stock manifolds may not hold up to the thermal stress and crack. the SS isn't really designed for the turbos.

might work for a little while. and for brief boost.

what are they made of???

 

[1320]

Im doing a twin turbo lt1 now too....in a 66 vette.....

A turbo manifold would work....but not the stock ones.....

The maps for the 63.....show about 76% effiency at 2.00 pressure ratio......thats 40 lbs/min each........at 15 psi......thats 800 hp....

Did you use the je -31cc turbo piston? Thats what I went with....but with stock heads (ported), 5.7 rod,

What are you using for fuel managment?, I was planning on stock ecm......with edit.....

Lou C made 950 hp on a 350 with two 60-1's....@ about 19 psi....it had the benefit of a motec though......

Im starting off with two oem buick turbos.....they should go 700 or so......

How about a GP on some 36 lb injectors?

 

[jastrckl]

a 383 with those heads will probably be way too high compression to run the turbos. need to drop compression a good few solid numbers.

 

[TURBOZ]

Originally posted by 1320
Im doing a twin turbo lt1 now too....in a 66 vette.....

A turbo manifold would work....but not the stock ones.....

The maps for the 63.....show about 76% effiency at 2.00 pressure ratio......thats 40 lbs/min each........at 15 psi......thats 800 hp....

Did you use the je -31cc turbo piston? Thats what I went with....but with stock heads (ported), 5.7 rod,

What are you using for fuel managment?, I was planning on stock ecm......with edit.....

Lou C made 950 hp on a 350 with two 60-1's....@ about 19 psi....it had the benefit of a motec though......

Im starting off with two oem buick turbos.....they should go 700 or so......

How about a GP on some 36 lb injectors?

Im running Ross pistons with my setup. As for management I use the FAST. As for my twins I think I will use mild steel and get them coated.

 

[1320]

Originally posted by jastrckl
a 383 with those heads will probably be way too high compression to run the turbos. need to drop compression a good few solid numbers.

8.5 to 1.....-31 cc dish.....

 

[Mease Performance]

Hey joe!

 

[Mease Performance]

also would like to chime in here:

I would reccomend using a MINIMUM grade of 304 stainless in the header build.....think of it this way: You are going to build the headers ONE time (hopefullly) hehe why skimp on the material when for the cost of HPC (which is going to fall off in 100 miles anyway....) buy the stainless!!!!! 321 is very good material for turbo beaders, keeps the heat in where ya need it (in the primary) which also helps with efficiency of your turbo kit, remember a turbo(s) does not just operate on air velocity coming through the housing....in fact air velocity and pressure is a direct relationship to heat.

S&S headers out 1320's way has AWESOME deals on mandrel bends in stainless, use 16 guage, and for the HP levels you are looking at I would reccomend 1.75 dia primaries.....Burns Stainless and myself build custom slip fit turbo collectors that you can utilize to make the build easier and allow your exhaust system to perform with optimal efficiency and even EGT's.

Any questions, feel free to ask, we have built quite a few single and Twin turbo LT-s's.

hope this helps

<KM@>MPE

 

[John Wilde]

Keith,

What exhaust products do you make?
I did not see these items on your web site.

 

[Mease Performance]

John:

exhaust products for Buick? Fbody or Corvette? We can build or get anything you may need....

We are STILL in the process of updating our site, its a slow process....I have hundreds of customer cars whom want pics posted in the "rides" section.....I dont have the time to even get all of the products listed & pics.

shoot us an Email and let me know what you need, if we cannot help you, I can make several good references.

hope this helps

regards, <KM@>MPE

 

[Turbojunkie]

I have seen some of these done in the past the worst part about the conversion is the lack of room in the car, but after you get past that no problems. I would definiately get some custom made headers and toss the factory stuff the heat will kill it. Also the one place i would not cut costs in is the fuel management. The factory ecm would work but in cars like these tuning is everything especially if it's driven on the street. The most cost effective way would be to find an old DFI kit out there but a used FAST system would be the best way of course. Just curious what you plan on doing with this car. Do you plan on drag racing the car, driving it on the street with a handling type suspension? Which ever one you do will be a blast i've had both types before. Have fun.

 

[GNVAIR]

I was originally going to build an LT1 for the same reason some of you guys are. I found out a few things about the LT1.
First off the electronics are ok. For approx $500 you can get a used DFI. For about $1200 you can get a Gen 7 DFI which is night and day superior to the 94-95 LT1 electronics everyone wants to run. Next issue was the cylinder heads. For an LT1, aftermarket heads are almost non existent. The stock aluminum heads wont take much boost before lifting a head gasket as the decks are rather thin.
The last issue was the Optispark. Once you start making power, you will find its output severely lacking.
I explored every option on putting an LT1 together. I even have one sitting here in the garage if anyone wants to buy it.
What I decided was to use was a late model roller cam 350 block.
I have the choice of just about any cylinder head, can run anytype of distributor, dont have to worry about the jerked off accessory routing or replacing expensive Optisparks when the water pump starts leaking. I do have an LT1 intake that I modified to fit an earlier small block that I may or may not use.

 

[n20junkie]

keith,
how much do you charge for a 2 inch double slip fit merge collector made out of 321 stainless, i am in the pricess of making new headers, and do you know where i can get 2 in 90 degree 321 90 degree bends with for less than burns, thanks.
Grant J Farmer

 

[86brick]

Originally posted by GNVAIR
I was originally going to build an LT1 for the same reason some of you guys are. I found out a few things about the LT1.
First off the electronics are ok. For approx $500 you can get a used DFI. For about $1200 you can get a Gen 7 DFI which is night and day superior to the 94-95 LT1 electronics everyone wants to run. Next issue was the cylinder heads. For an LT1, aftermarket heads are almost non existent. The stock aluminum heads wont take much boost before lifting a head gasket as the decks are rather thin.
The last issue was the Optispark. Once you start making power, you will find its output severely lacking.
I explored every option on putting an LT1 together. I even have one sitting here in the garage if anyone wants to buy it.
What I decided was to use was a late model roller cam 350 block.
I have the choice of just about any cylinder head, can run anytype of distributor, dont have to worry about the jerked off accessory routing or replacing expensive Optisparks when the water pump starts leaking. I do have an LT1 intake that I modified to fit an earlier small block that I may or may not use.

Lee, I'm a bit confused.... Last time I heard you can use AFR heads with the LT1 as well as Canfield heads (George Baxter used them on his supercharged LT1 Camaro that went 9.0's @150+mph).... To tell you the truth I don't think you really need aftermarket heads on an LT1 to make 1000hp because if you read the latest issue of GMHTP (May '03 issue) Chris Sikora's badass LT1 YS-trim supercharged and intercooled 383ci LT1 Camaro ran 9.49 @144mph with ported GTP LT4 heads and with 26lbs of boost he should be well into the 8's.... Also you can get rid of the Optispark by eliminating the EGR and use an MSD billet distributor from what I've seen.... I'm sure it's easier with a late model 350 block, but it can be done with an LT1 IMO and a friend of mine might be building a 4-bolt main LT1 block with LT4 heads/intake, custom hyd. roller cam, FAST system, TH-400, and a single T-76 BB turbo to put in his '88 IROC Camaro

 

[Mease Performance]

Grant:

Well, in order to quote you a price, I need to know what guage material you will be sliding into the slip fits, do you need tabs on them for insurance? where? how many inlets (primaries) and which turbo flange are you using? will it be a "close quarters" collector, if not how much room do you have for just the collector? (how long can it be?)

S&S headers has the best pricing on mandrel bends....and the best quality....we purchase in large quantities, so we get a significant discount with them on any materials. let me know what sizes, answer the above questions, , and give me a centerline radiius, and diameter for the bends you are searching for.....we only use 180's they are the most popular.

Glad to help

thanks, <KM@>MPE

 

[GNVAIR]

Originally posted by 86brick
Lee, I'm a bit confused.... Last time I heard you can use AFR heads with the LT1 as well as Canfield heads (George Baxter used them on his supercharged LT1 Camaro that went 9.0's @150+mph).... To tell you the truth I don't think you really need aftermarket heads on an LT1 to make 1000hp because if you read the latest issue of GMHTP (May '03 issue) Chris Sikora's badass LT1 YS-trim supercharged and intercooled 383ci LT1 Camaro ran 9.49 @144mph with ported GTP LT4 heads and with 26lbs of boost he should be well into the 8's.... Also you can get rid of the Optispark by eliminating the EGR and use an MSD billet distributor from what I've seen.... I'm sure it's easier with a late model 350 block, but it can be done with an LT1 IMO and a friend of mine might be building a 4-bolt main LT1 block with LT4 heads/intake, custom hyd. roller cam, FAST system, TH-400, and a single T-76 BB turbo to put in his '88 IROC Camaro

AFR and Canfield had heads for them, but problem is actually getting your hands on them. Keith and I were discussing this and from what he heard, bith companies are no longer producing them. Whether that is true is questionable.
Basically my point for posting is why start with an LT1 if I am not going to be using any of the LT1 specific features?? The only reason why a lot of those guys do is to say they did it with an LT1. Myself; I prefer to use a good old fashioned GEN 1 style small block for the reasons I posted previously.

 

[Mease Performance]

heads on LT-1

Canfield no longer casts reverse cooled heads, its a shame because we've had the most luck with the canfield heads, they are beautiful castings.....

Air Flow Research DOES still make all of their popular LT-1 LT-4 heads....but their ports designs are inferior and we find them tough to deal with, in our past experiences with AFR though....we had a few CNC programs for these heads but had to cancel them because the core shift was so bad with their castings, that 50% of the ports ended up being paper thin. ....the AFR competition port jobs absolutely bl*w....in fact we had quite a few customers order AFR comp ported heads, I believe they claim over 275 @28" for flow figures....we saw at best on some of them no more than 260-265. The AFR's do work though, just that they must be professionally hand ported to achieve any results...I've seen cars slow down going from ported LT1's to AFR's.

take care, <KM@>MPE

 

[n20junkie]

keith i am looking for 4 into 1 collector, 321 SS and i want to use 16 gauge primaries of 2 inch od, collector legnth is of no issue, but i would like a 3 inch v band clamp instead of a turbo flange, the u bends i would need are 2 in od 16 gauge 321 and about 6 of them, thanks for the help.
Grant

 

[86brick]

Wow, thanks for the heads up!

I'll be sure to pass this info along to my friend before he starts the project.... On a side note I'm pretty sure a while back on some F-body forum I heard some talk of Edelbrock possibly making LT1 style heads, but I'm not really sure if this is the case.... You guys hear anything about this?? I need to check Edelbrock's website to see if they have anything about them.... Lee, you made some very good points and I'm really starting to think that he would be much better off using an aftermarket 1st gen style chevy block like a Bowtie, Motown, or even a Dart....
Thanks again for the good info and good luck with the twin turbo Malibu!

 

[slow 86 gn]

Another place to buy tubing is SPD Specialty Products Design www.exhaust.com They have mild steel, 304 and 321 Stainless also CNC header flanges for LT-1 ZZ3 ZZ4 and alot of other goodies for making headers.