Factory hyd. roller lifter conversion?

[Blazer406]

Take the pitted one apart and see how gunky the internals are.

Did you grind/clearance the block or the dogbone?

Bob

Will do... I was considering taking all of them apart.... but wasn't sure what was involved. It looks like it is just a keeper that you pry out from under the lip... and the guts should pop right out..... I had briefly considered trying to press the roller axle out and swapping it with one of the wheels on the 3800 lifter I have....it would probably damage it pretty easy..... either way... I am a little scared of the pitted wheel.

I did not clearance the block yet.... because that is my original motor that came out of my car... that spun a main bearing. It is not going to be repared at this point... just mothballed......The SG1 109 block I got from the junkyard is at the machine shop getting bored and cam bearings installed. Once I have it back... I will test fit and clearance as necessary. On the motor in the pic... it looks like .050 or so taken out of that corner would do it.... with plenty of room to spare.....

 

[Blazer406]

I took the pitted one apart.... there isn't hardly anything inside the lifter...just a clip...a pushrod cup.... a flat disk.... a small cylinder with a spring cup under the bottom.....and a spring.....

It was gunked up........I cleaned it up....and re-assembled it.... I can tell... I will have to do that with the remaining 11....

Here is a pic of the pitted roller. I either will try and press the roller off the 3800 lifter I have... or I need a few spares.... I haven't really inspected all the lifters super close.... but this one is obviously pitted. See Pic.

 

[TurboBob]

I can't tell from your pics, but remember that the shoulder on the lifter cannot be allowed to hit the dogbone. The dogbone lays on the block (motionless) and provides a guide-slot for the lifter. Check it with your intended cam....

Bob

 

[Blazer406]

I can't tell from your pics, but remember that the shoulder on the lifter cannot be allowed to hit the dogbone. The dogbone lays on the block (motionless) and provides a guide-slot for the lifter. Check it with your intended cam....

Bob

That is the plan. I was thinking about ordering a 210/215 Comp HR from Mike. What do you think about that? I was trying to find info on the base circle of those rollers. I assume they are the same as a regular flat tappet? I also am curious if the pushrods will work out to be the same length as stock..... those hyd roller lifters look awefully close to the same height as stock flat tappets..... Maybe I will get lucky.

 

[TurboBob]

Progress?

 

[Blazer406]

Unfortunately.... no...

I am fairly limited on budget... and elected to bench this until I start on a spare motor...

I think it would be an easy swap.... The biggest part would be fabricating a decent spider..... the rest appears to be very easy.

My spare engine... will have a steel crank.. and a girdle.... and a roller cam.... none of which are making it into my current build....

I hope someone will continue what I have started.... if not... I'll pick back up later when I start on the next build.

 

[Blazer406]

Progress?

On a side note.... I intended to hollar at you at the nats.... but when I came over to speak hello to Mike.... you were pretty busy....

I stayed very busy working on a friends '88 T6 powered IROC..... we finally went down the track with a couple of low boost shakedown passes Saturday afternoon...... up to that point... we were plagued with gremlins....

 

[DonnieShort]

On a side note.... I intended to hollar at you at the nats.... but when I came over to speak hello to Mike.... you were pretty busy....

I stayed very busy working on a friends '88 T6 powered IROC..... we finally went down the track with a couple of low boost shakedown passes Saturday afternoon...... up to that point... we were plagued with gremlins....

I saw that car go down the track saturday, can't remember what it ran but it was a sharp car:smile: I wonder why you don't see many people doing the turbo v6 swap in the old Irocs? I had an 85 Iroc and loved it, would have loved it even more if it had a GN motor in it:biggrin: I always liked the the Iroc over the TA of that era, especially the interior.

 

[Blazer406]

It went 10.7x on about 16 psi boost.... launching at 2 psi.....with the tune being so fat it registerd around 8.5:1 AFR for about 2/3 of the entire run.....

After the first run... we leaned it out a bit.... but on the second pass... the voltage dropped to low 11's.... I think which caused it to pop going down the track.... third pass voltage was worse....

It should be an animal when we get it the bugs worked out.... and up on more boost.

 

[Blazer406]

Update....

Picked up a spring kit from a board member who bought the kit from fullthrottle... but decided on a different cam.... which he said... they wouldn't work for.... so I got the springs, retainers, and keepers.... new.

Now I am thinking about ordering a cam and shimmable button from Mike.

Now I really need to get the spider figured out. I was thinking about welding two 3/8" or 1/2" bolts sticking up in the lifter valley for the spider to attach. You could install a nut under the spider and one over the spider... to make the height of the spider whatever you wanted it to be. I was thinking about making my own spider out of some thin stainless gauge metal.

 

[TurboBob]

Update....

Picked up a spring kit from a board member who bought the kit from fullthrottle... but decided on a different cam.... which he said... they wouldn't work for.... so I got the springs, retainers, and keepers.... new.

Now I am thinking about ordering a cam and shimmable button from Mike.

Now I really need to get the spider figured out. I was thinking about welding two 3/8" or 1/2" bolts sticking up in the lifter valley for the spider to attach. You could install a nut under the spider and one over the spider... to make the height of the spider whatever you wanted it to be. I was thinking about making my own spider out of some thin stainless gauge metal.

I don't know what it would take to weld to the block, I envision something that hooks under the heads or pushes on the bottom of the intake to keep it in place. Like a large piece of stainless, laser cut and bent to fit...... Perhaps thick enough to do the work of the dogbones as well......

The spider doesn't carry any real load when the engine is running as the lifter shoulder shouldn't hit the dogbone.

Keep us updated......

B

 

[Blazer406]

I ordered a 210/215 XR2 HR cam from Mike this week.... hopefully I will get it in the engine sometime next week.

We are going to figure out how to retain the dogbones .... and I think we have cleared the major hurdles....

 

[Blazer406]

Talked to my machinist tonight.... he got it done.... cut down a spider from a 350.... drilled and tapped two holes... inatalled a couple standoffs for the spider..... supposedly looks factory.... and my cam works fine with those 60 deg V6 lifters and dogbones out of the 3800.....

I'll post some pics soon.....

 

[PowerKraus]

Just a point here, i do not know if the drop-in 853 retro-fit rollers are taller than the lifters you are going to try out. If the 853s are taller than what you are trying to use, I suggest you try to step up to a 3/8th push rod and not the typical 7/16ths......otherwise, you'll have a very long skinny push rod and may run into flexing issues, that is made worse due to the much higher spring pressure used for rollers. BUT if what you are proposing to use is actually a taller lifter than the 853s, it is worth a shot just to lessen flex issues on a 7/16th rod. In any case, while you have the goods at the shop, see if you can get 3/8th clearanced, and let us (well, actually me) know.

Can a stock iron head be clearanced for 3/8ths pushrods....as I woud like to do this. My roller conversion (before there were 'kits') called for 8.3" rod lengths.

Good luck on your endeavor, sounds like you've already worked through the 'hard part'!

 

[Blazer406]

Just a point here, i do not know if the drop-in 853 retro-fit rollers are taller than the lifters you are going to try out. If the 853s are taller than what you are trying to use, I suggest you try to step up to a 3/8th push rod and not the typical 7/16ths......otherwise, you'll have a very long skinny push rod and may run into flexing issues, that is made worse due to the much higher spring pressure used for rollers. BUT if what you are proposing to use is actually a taller lifter than the 853s, it is worth a shot just to lessen flex issues on a 7/16th rod. In any case, while you have the goods at the shop, see if you can get 3/8th clearanced, and let us (well, actually me) know.

Can a stock iron head be clearanced for 3/8ths pushrods....as I woud like to do this. My roller conversion (before there were 'kits') called for 8.3" rod lengths.

Good luck on your endeavor, sounds like you've already worked through the 'hard part'!

I suspect the 60 deg V6 lifters are shorter than the Comp 853 or 885 retrofit lifters. I am a little concerned with flex.... and I might look into that further... good advice.

My brother works every day with a machine called a spinton that spins a mock engine up at big RPMS just to study the valvetrain dynamics.... he has always seen larger pushrods help minimize the flex.... and when dyno'd... make more horsepower than the lighter more flexible stockers...

Oh... I think you ment 5/16 stockers... not 7/16.... 7/16 is 1 step larger than 3/8....

 

[PowerKraus]

oops 5/16th. Nevertheless. It sounds like you know what you are doing. Good to see you'll check on the flex issue. Good luck and let us know how it turns out and your opinion on the T&Ds.