I am ready to make the purchase for an EFI and have talked with several vendors who have different opinions on whats best. Then today I talked with a Buick owner who has a 8.3 sec GN. He is using an old Fel Pro unit but said lot of the pro racers are going with the Accell Gen7 unit and are very successful with it. Does anyone else agree with that statement or have any information to confirm it?
Fast, Accell or BS3
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This is what the gen 7 system lacks as far as i see.
requires fast laptop p3 400 mhz, min
only 6 sensors can be datalogged
there is no boost control
no mph input for tcc config.
This is what it has
a/c compressor disable and control and feed compensation
2 fan speed control with iac feed forward compensation.
boost builder option (rev limited)
overboost control( it will shut down cyls until the boost drops below a preset value u control.)
20 fps dataloging for 6 sensors for 60 minutes.
The ability to overlay new logs over existing logs
generic wideband input 0-5 linear sensors
3 stage NOs control
engine codes, ses light
dfi gen 6 maps can be emulated for programing
can be seq, batch, staged sequential, tbi modes
can be used v6, v8 etc one box does all
units displayed in psi or kpa
scaleable maps for a/f and ve
16 x 16 matrix for a/f ratio table
adjustable coil pack dwell time
+/-25 o2 correction
self tune ve cells (same as l key on fast)
individual screens can be saved
knock control
tcc control based on tps and rpm
separate fuel and igntion rev limiters.
a few more i don't know of yet.
requires fast laptop p3 400 mhz, min
only 6 sensors can be datalogged
there is no boost control
no mph input for tcc config.
This is what it has
a/c compressor disable and control and feed compensation
2 fan speed control with iac feed forward compensation.
boost builder option (rev limited)
overboost control( it will shut down cyls until the boost drops below a preset value u control.)
20 fps dataloging for 6 sensors for 60 minutes.
The ability to overlay new logs over existing logs
generic wideband input 0-5 linear sensors
3 stage NOs control
engine codes, ses light
dfi gen 6 maps can be emulated for programing
can be seq, batch, staged sequential, tbi modes
can be used v6, v8 etc one box does all
units displayed in psi or kpa
scaleable maps for a/f and ve
16 x 16 matrix for a/f ratio table
adjustable coil pack dwell time
+/-25 o2 correction
self tune ve cells (same as l key on fast)
individual screens can be saved
knock control
tcc control based on tps and rpm
separate fuel and igntion rev limiters.
a few more i don't know of yet.
blownvette
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- Mar 14, 2002
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- 14
http://www.bigstuff3.com/proc.pdf
I have not ordered my new unit yet but it will be a FAST or BS3.
There were a few issues with the GEN7 when it came out. I know first hand that the WB02 had problems. Problems that were hard to figure out because the local EMIC was able to lock the owner out of his computer. Just a nice feature added to the GEN7 that serves the owner in no way what so ever.
I have not ordered my new unit yet but it will be a FAST or BS3.
There were a few issues with the GEN7 when it came out. I know first hand that the WB02 had problems. Problems that were hard to figure out because the local EMIC was able to lock the owner out of his computer. Just a nice feature added to the GEN7 that serves the owner in no way what so ever.
berrelauto
New Member
- Joined
- Feb 20, 2003
- Messages
- 93
I could'nt agree with you more, As a tuner I feel that the customer has paid me for his tune and it is his to do with what he wants. I will only lockout something that is mine or a sponsorship.
Buy the way Matt Hartfords Chevy Cavalier went 6.562 @ 212.03 this weekend at Firebird Raceway with a BIG STUFF 3
- Joined
- Jun 18, 2001
- Messages
- 1,451
I don't think you'll go wrong with any of them, a properly tuned motor is a properly tuned motor no matter what system you use. What you are buying is software, options and add ons and ease of use.
That being said, I just switched from an older BtoB FAST to a Gen 7 and have been very happy with it. My older FAST system versatility was becoming limited for my combo and upgrading was $$$. The Gen 7 offered the most for the $$ and this was one of my primary reasons for switching. Norbs break down above is pretty accurate. The option to program and calibrate any WB02 is very nice and sensor replacement is very inexpensive. The help files and manual are second to none. Datalogging is limited and that is a downside.
I bought my Gen 7 after taking advice from Lonnie. He has been a hugh help and even drove 5 1/2 hours to help me dial my motor in on the dyno.
Good luck
I have all three on my laptop, I am going to tune a Buick that a customer just bought that has Gen 7 on it. I asked around about this topic at the Orlando Fastest Street Car race last October and almost everyone was using Fast there were three Big Stuff 3 users and a few Gen users too.
Me personally I like the fast, The Big Stuff 3 is still a work in progress if you ask me. It lists all these features on their website but not all of them work. The boost controll for one I know isn't working for a production box. No nitrous control. The software interface is really blah grey and black. It just seems unfinished to me.
I do like the interface of the Gen 7 software but the password protection is BS for a user. The drawback is that the Gen 7 needs a laptop in the car. I crashed a couple of hard drives in my car last year (8.20's) before I bought the Fast data logger.
If I were going to buy one right now I would wait until the Fast XFI comes out. From what I hear (inside source) it will be the best thing in the mid price market.
Me personally I like the fast, The Big Stuff 3 is still a work in progress if you ask me. It lists all these features on their website but not all of them work. The boost controll for one I know isn't working for a production box. No nitrous control. The software interface is really blah grey and black. It just seems unfinished to me.
I do like the interface of the Gen 7 software but the password protection is BS for a user. The drawback is that the Gen 7 needs a laptop in the car. I crashed a couple of hard drives in my car last year (8.20's) before I bought the Fast data logger.
If I were going to buy one right now I would wait until the Fast XFI comes out. From what I hear (inside source) it will be the best thing in the mid price market.
I agree the Bigstuff software is not to my liking and has steered me away from it, even though it has many good features. The colours on the gen 7 dfi are not the best either and non adjustable. Also from what i have seen the gen7 software is very stable, and doesn't have any bugs in it. I guess running low 8s could be a problem with the laptop in the car. The xfi has the most features of all 3 and looks very promising if the price is going to be within reach. question would be can you use a generic wideband controller on the xfi box?
Where do I find information on the XFI?
How much does it cost?
What are the features?
Is the wideband Software calibrated?
Can you use an Innovate or other WB02?
I personally Like the Gen7. The 3.2 and up software has been trouble free. The type2 wideband with brick has worked flawless so has the innovate WB with the 4.02. I have needed very little tech help. The F1 help key from any screen is a major plus in my book. Price is very fair v/s features offered. Anyone can use the VE table start up program to start the car about 99% of the time and be somewhere close enough to drive the car to start tuning. The swing of the O2 seems to be much quicker than the FAST and seems to have less effect on performance IMO. I have tuned cars over 1000HP zero problems. The data logging could use some improvement. Its works but I would like to see more than 6 parameters. I wish they would do away with the Calibration key it is a pain. They need to correct the issues with Toshiba laptops. If you own a Toshiba buy another laptop or fuel management system just trust me on this one. Would be nice to datalog without laptop or buying a Gen7 interface for a Racepak.
I know nothing about the BS3.
I do not care at all for the current FAST and will not waste anyones time telling the story. Many guys love them and I respect thier opinion. I will be the first one to say that if a car is tuned save your money chances are a new fuel management system wont help. If you have never owned, tuned or raced a Gen7 what can you tell anyone good or bad about it? I will say that personally every FAST I have removed and replaced with a Gen7 has made more power. To be Fair with that statement it could be I am a better Gen7 tuner than a Fast tuner.
How much does it cost?
What are the features?
Is the wideband Software calibrated?
Can you use an Innovate or other WB02?
I personally Like the Gen7. The 3.2 and up software has been trouble free. The type2 wideband with brick has worked flawless so has the innovate WB with the 4.02. I have needed very little tech help. The F1 help key from any screen is a major plus in my book. Price is very fair v/s features offered. Anyone can use the VE table start up program to start the car about 99% of the time and be somewhere close enough to drive the car to start tuning. The swing of the O2 seems to be much quicker than the FAST and seems to have less effect on performance IMO. I have tuned cars over 1000HP zero problems. The data logging could use some improvement. Its works but I would like to see more than 6 parameters. I wish they would do away with the Calibration key it is a pain. They need to correct the issues with Toshiba laptops. If you own a Toshiba buy another laptop or fuel management system just trust me on this one. Would be nice to datalog without laptop or buying a Gen7 interface for a Racepak.
I know nothing about the BS3.
I do not care at all for the current FAST and will not waste anyones time telling the story. Many guys love them and I respect thier opinion. I will be the first one to say that if a car is tuned save your money chances are a new fuel management system wont help. If you have never owned, tuned or raced a Gen7 what can you tell anyone good or bad about it? I will say that personally every FAST I have removed and replaced with a Gen7 has made more power. To be Fair with that statement it could be I am a better Gen7 tuner than a Fast tuner.
Well guys guess it pays to read slower and wait untill a thread is done? Yesterday I ordered a Fast Sequential unit and since then I have had a few e-mails and threads in this forum that says maybe I acted too soon. Lets hear from the Fast guys who have tried different systems and the Fast system gave them the best results. It will ease my case of buyers remorse.confused:
That isn't a very fair statment without saying that you are a better tuner with Gen 7. I would suspect that it is totally because you are a better tuber with Gen 7
I have all three of the software systems on my laptop. I have gone through all of the screens on each of the programs. I do like the interface of Gen 7 a little better. I also like the simplicity of the FAST, my car has FAST Bank to Bank on it and I have had 0 problems with it. My car makes 1072 to the rear tires on a very safe tune up. Data logging is great without a laptop, I can record 14 sensors with ease. There are somethings better about each system.
Let's face it, everyone gets their comfort spot (usually your first system) and doesn't like to jump into something different or new. If you learned with Gen 7 or 6 then switched to something else then you would look at the other software and say why did they do that. It's all a matter of where you start.
I think all of the systems will do the job just fine. If you don't like FAST then you really won't like Big Stuff 3.
FAST XFI isn't out yet so you won't find alot of reliable info yet.
Uh really, tell that to Jason Siebels of AEM..... I know for a fact the car ran 6.61 @211.46mph (also think the car ran a 6.59) with the AEM so maybe he made the switch to a Motec and then to the BS3...
FWIW, the fastest Pro RWD sport compact car is still Steph's AEM Honda with a 6.52 in testing as well as a best MPH of 214....
It'd be nice if things were that simple...
Why do you think people can see significant improvement by moving from a stock PCM/xxxEdit combination to an aftermarket unit, when they both are capable of calling for the same timing and A/F ratios?
The same reasoning holds true between different aftermarket units. Each does things differently, and there are situations where it can be proven that some units will perform better than others.
J
JCotton
Guest
This is an interesting thread, although, it is also based on perception and opinion. We all have opinions based on our experience and quite often they are not the same. My experience with aftermarket engine management differs with lonnies, it doesn't make me right and him wrong because I disaggree, it just means I must be better with a FAST than he is and he must be better with a GEN 7 than I am.... 
I didn't care for the GEN 7, found I could work and tune much quicker and easier with a FAST. I've never sold and or installed a FAST for a customer without them being satisfied, that I know of. Street or strip, my results have always far exceded anything my customer ever imagined. It's all depending on how well we know the product we are working with. This reminds me of BB turbos, I've never had a customer call me and tell me they didn't like their BB turbo when it was the correct turbo for the correct application. I just last nite had a customner call me and tell me he finally installed his T76Q BB turbo and can't believe the differance in spool up and performance compared to his 76 turbo from another vendor.
I'm not going to debate the merits of each system, I am simply saying I'll match systems with anyone out there and achieve the performance level a combo should be at with a FAST. Tuning to max performance is not something that just happens in a day on the dyno or a day at the track. Tuning is a process that needs to start slowly and proceed cautiously. I chuckle when someone replaces one part and has hugh gains, but fails to divulge all the other parts or changes that were made at the same time. Oh well, I know I'm rambling here, better move on..... time to get working.
I didn't care for the GEN 7, found I could work and tune much quicker and easier with a FAST. I've never sold and or installed a FAST for a customer without them being satisfied, that I know of. Street or strip, my results have always far exceded anything my customer ever imagined. It's all depending on how well we know the product we are working with. This reminds me of BB turbos, I've never had a customer call me and tell me they didn't like their BB turbo when it was the correct turbo for the correct application. I just last nite had a customner call me and tell me he finally installed his T76Q BB turbo and can't believe the differance in spool up and performance compared to his 76 turbo from another vendor. I'm not going to debate the merits of each system, I am simply saying I'll match systems with anyone out there and achieve the performance level a combo should be at with a FAST. Tuning to max performance is not something that just happens in a day on the dyno or a day at the track. Tuning is a process that needs to start slowly and proceed cautiously. I chuckle when someone replaces one part and has hugh gains, but fails to divulge all the other parts or changes that were made at the same time. Oh well, I know I'm rambling here, better move on..... time to get working.
I have to agree with Jack on this one (Did I say that!?!
). I sell FAST, BS3, and Gen7's. I have tuned all three and admit that I am most proficient with the FAST systems. With that said, I can't see a real hp advantage from one system to the next. Timing is timing, and pulse width is pulse width regardless what computer is sending the signal. Perhaps, Lonnie or DFI guy could explain.
). I sell FAST, BS3, and Gen7's. I have tuned all three and admit that I am most proficient with the FAST systems. With that said, I can't see a real hp advantage from one system to the next. Timing is timing, and pulse width is pulse width regardless what computer is sending the signal. Perhaps, Lonnie or DFI guy could explain.
