Front RT tire Rub? Left one don't?

[scot w.]

Just weld vertical supports/locators to the body & frame after centering it... problem solved.

 

[jdpolzin]

An option some of you may want to consider:


My plan is to use a set of spherical swaybar links. I plan to weld tabs on the frame that will allow the links to rotate on as well as tabs on the body. I feel that if you weld something solid directly from the frame to the body, it'll cause bad vibrations under load. In my opinion, a spherical link will allow body roll/movement without allowing much movement front to rear/side to side.

I've been working on a set up here and as long as it's attached toward the front of the car (front floor boards), it should be streamlined towards the center of gravity (linear based) across the body. I started to fabricate a bolt in style bracket for the body and will more than likely weld boxing tabs top to bottom on the middle of the frame. The only problem I'm coming across the the rounded edges of the floor pan.

I'm thinking this will also help keep the body from flexing under a hard launch at the track.

 

[Heg87t]

I suffered from left front outside tire rub on my car. I replaced all of the stock body bushings and added the "GNX" mounts with poly bushings. This did raise the body higher on the frame to help the tire rub. I also aligned the body by measuring from the frame to body and it needed to be shifted quite a bit from where it started. Mostly the front clip was pointing to the right far enough you could see it by looking at the tub and front bumper.

Tire rub is 95% better with the new bushings and the body straight on the frame. :biggrin:

 

[HelloBozos]

I happen to disagree, I have 255/35-18 in FRONT and 285/40-18 in REAR With NO frame notch and just a fender lip roll, I am lowered 2" and completely off the stock suspension and only had a slight Scuff on my outside passenger tire when I had two people in my car! It wasn't tearing tires up, It wasn't gauging the tire, and it never ruined a single tire, it was only a scuff and so slight I bet you couldn't even see where it was done!! So with my 10" wide wheels in back and the 9.5" wide wheels up front THEY WOULD FIT "PERFECTLY" if the body/geometry issue from the factory wasn't there!!

Now then, Move onto the issue with the brakes moving the wheel outward all I have to do is send my wheels back to CCW with the measurements in my test and they will take care of that small brake issue real fast! Either by changing out a hoop on each tire or what ever John wishes to do. The "TRICK" begins with a quality 3-piece wheel and a wheel manufacture who knows these Buicks like the back of his hand and knows what it takes to make the wide ones fit. I was lucky to have been introduced to John @ CCW..

Your outcome depends mostly on your combination/set up...there are MANY way's out there to accomplish a handling car with the many suspension company's out there. There is just way too many variables that come into play here....(example) Back spacing, Wheel size, Tire size, Brakes, OEM/Drop-spindles?, 1"or 2" drop-springs?, reg or coil over-shocks?, Etc, Etc.

Some people may want to get the best bang for the buck in instant better handling over stock and to me a nice set of wheels and tires seems to make the biggest difference for the buck. Or they may not have to funds for all the other stuff first. Then it's sway bars, Then bracing, than if that still isn't good enough the suspension would be next....And even after the suspension upgrades like brakes, a-arms,etc,etc you still shouldn't have to buy two different sets of front tires because of this!

Yeah in a perfect world and endless pockets right from the start it would be BEST to do Everything all at once but not many can do that so people are forced to due things in steps just like me,I'm no exception. It may look at times like I have endless pockets but the reality is "Tax Returns" I only do one large thing to this car per year and that's it...Wheels & tires one year, The next was interior, the next was suspension and now this year it's brakes finally after 4 yrs this car is getting to where I envisioned it. so it can be done like this you just have to do it right the first time around and save yourself a bunch of hassle & time....


I don't want this thread to get off course, so let's please keep it on track so it can be used as it was intended for.

I will report back with more info when it's available.

Scot W.

When i added my ROH drift wheels (18x10 an 18x9)on bone stock suspenion an brakes, They worked great!!,no rub,no fuss,no frame mods,even with my front clip a whole Inch to the passenger side. Now that i've gone to BMR a-arms upper an lower,an Aerospace pro street disk brakes,kept the stock spindles for now,all i had to do is loose the 1 inch spacer that came with the front ROH wheels an the wheels fit perferctly in the wheels,Now all i have to do is slide the core over while it's at paint an body an the whole front end will be True..8^)..Glad to hear your wheel place will take your wheels back. They will have to be changed.I'm going to get custum set 3 peice set after i have everything mounted,alinged an road tested. After your done an i'm done,will compair skid pad G's....lol

Enjoy!

 

[scot w.]

Glad to hear your wheel place will take your wheels back. They will have to be changed.Enjoy!

Not True! For the record they are not Taking Them back! They are just going to change a Hoop or do what they have to "IF" they need it.. Who knows, I may get this issue squared away good enough where the wheels will be fine... Keep in mind NOTHING was done to my inner wheel wells and I will do everything in my power to keep the wheels just like they are!!

I have several choices here:

1) Nothing may have to be changed at all, too early to speculate!
2) Change hoops on the wheels to allow for the brakes, Simple!
3) Re-work the inner front wheel wells to allow for the brakes, Better idea for the added roll center...Wider the foot path, the better!

 

[charlief1]

That's the plan Charlie, We have been looking at it today and even came up with a cool little remedy to keep the body in place once you got it where it needs to be. If this ends up working out I will post pic's and a detailed write up on what needs to be done, BUT testing needs to be done first to determine if this worked or not...

Thanks for chiming in, your thoughts are always welcome!

Scot W.

I'll be looking foward to it Scott. I want to see what you come up with whether or not it works.:biggrin: I even tried to coax a local GN owner on to the board but I don't know if I did any good or not.

 

[novaderrik]

my car is backwards- when i had 255/50/16's on the front GTA wheels, it rubbed a tiny bit on the inner fenderwell behind the wheel at full lock on the driver's side. with 245/50's, it doesn't rub at all.along with all the reference points on the frame, i have used string and jackstands to measure the car and the frame and body are both perfectly square and the body is sitting perfect centered and straight on the frame.
my car must have been put together on a wednesday afternoon..

 

[turboclam]

I did the LS1 swap and it pushed my wheels out so far that I had to put two rear GTA wheels on the front vs the front GTA wheels. My car has drop spindles and lowering springs. With 245 50 16 it still rubs on the outside of the driver's side tire. A smaller tire would fix this issue but I like the 245 50 look. I have not done the body bushings yet.

 

[motorhead]

I have several choices here:

1) Nothing may have to be changed at all, too early to speculate!

My money is on this. As long as the hub dimensions are constant with the stock rotors, the only thing you are going to have to factor in is the hat thickness of the new aftermarket rotor (which is what? 1/4" to 1/2").

 

[jdpolzin]

My money is on this. As long as the hub dimensions are constant with the stock rotors, the only thing you are going to have to factor in is the hat thickness of the new aftermarket rotor (which is what? 1/4" to 1/2").

Most aftermarket rotors push the wheel out 3/8" and some are 1/4". I havent logged which is which so I cant tell you exactly which one did what unfortuantely.

 

[jdpolzin]

Third, Front A-Arm Swaps an/or disk break set-ups, will set your wheel out to the fender a Inch on both side's,an drop the car about an inch in the front. When your tring to fit largest wheel tire you can in the front, These 3 things i mentioned above will Messs with You Bad!!!

Enjoy!

I do agree with this BUT.....The BMR's lower the car almost an full inch because of their spring pockets. This in turn makes the lower A arm sit more parrallel with the ground (the reason they sit out further). This isnt necessarily true for all lower A Arms though. The BMR's sit out the most as compared to the four different brands I've used.

I've had best of luck with my stock lower A arms (boxed).

 

[jdpolzin]

Thanks for posting your thoughts!

I'm not too sure I believe the story about the added room for the downpipe & turbo. Reason is, I have seen friends take a regular regal (not meant for turbo or down pipe) taken and made into a turbo regal Plus Monte Carlo's also have the same issue how do you explain that?

I don't believe that GM was stupid and off this much in their geometry on the front end of these cars.

However, I DO believe like Kevin B. posted it's more likely the body on the frame that has shifted over time OR was set wrong from the beginning at the factory and that is what I will address first to see where that gets me.

Car has never been in any accidents!

You are correct and I am well aware of aftermarket brakes pushing the wheel outwards and can even tell you that BAER say's they push the front out .400 and .300 in the rear.. BUT these measurements taken were using STOCK BRAKES!

Just to let you know this wheel offset was visually noticeable and the first person to notice it on my car was (TurboDave) about two years ago when I had the GTA wheels on And that was with the STOCK A-ARMS too!! So this issue seems to have nothing to do with Any aftermarket parts or Any accidents.


Good post Bozo! (no pun intended, it's just your screen name) LOL


Scot W.[/QUOTE
It's a nasty combination to over come,everything will add up, but it's possiable to over come,I just put my atr rate springs back in the front,did some "GNX" fender clearancing, I have No Rub!...8^) with 255/40/18's in front ,still stock body bushings,no wheel spacers,with 1" drop from the BMR a-arm swap an the inch out to the fender with aerospace brake kit.Now i'm working on the back to even the stance out,added the ebich 1" drop spring back to the back an getting new bilisteins today, (mine are 20+ years old)

i'll have new photo's end the week

Enjoy!!

Sorry about my last post as I just read this and see you of course already know about the lowering with the BMR's!:redface:


What rear springs are you using?

 

[HelloBozos]

Sorry about my last post as I just read this and see you of course already know about the lowering with the BMR's!:redface:


What rear springs are you using?

ATR's rate springs,added the 1 inch drop Ebich springs out back again an just waiting for my shocks to get here Monday to put the car back on the ground an see where it stands,should be nice an level, i run a 28 inch tall 295/40/18 Falken Azenis out back,no frame mod,just upper fender lip roll,When i do the frame bushings an even out the front clip, i can add the 1 inch drop ebich spring back in the front

Enjoy!

 

[TheGovernment]

my stock 86 T has the right side rub also. Only on big bumps but it's there. Front tires are 245/50/18's on a 4.5 BS boss 302's

 

[KevinB]

Bingo! This was going to be our first line of attack. We are going to remove all of the body bolts and try to shift the whole body over a 1/4". This should equal the measurements out from side to side. When your talking only a 1/4" it seems very possible that GM could have set these bodies off a tad or it just shifted that much over time....

Can you link us to the kit you used?


Thanks!
Scot W.

I just used the energy suspension kit that jegs sells for about 150 or so. Took me about 3 hours by myself using normal tools with my average skills. I was fortunate to have all the bolts come right out without any issues. Have heard of some cars having issues with the weld nuts breaking loose. That would really slow the process down. I used my floor Jack and a 2x4, 4 Jack stands and basic hand tools and my 1/2" impact. Make sure to remove bumpers if you value your bumper fillers.
When you start to unbolting everything, you will be amazed at how much the body and frame work together to stiffen everything up. You will see how important it is to have a good connection between the two. The energy kit comes with the "Gnx" bushing also. After the install, the body will sit about a 1/4-1/2" higher on the frame. This may help rubbing issues also.

 

[krazy86t]

I just used the energy suspension kit that jegs sells for about 150 or so. ... The energy kit comes with the "Gnx" bushing also. After the install, the body will sit about a 1/4-1/2" higher on the frame. This may help rubbing issues also.

Are you refering to this:

Energy Suspension 3-4141R Energy Suspension Body Mounts

or the whole kit ?

they don't describe the difference between Red and Black - i guess material hardness or color preference. where does the GNX bushing go?

 

[KevinB]

The first kit for $13X.00. The second is for the front and rear suspension. R means red and g means black. No difference in hardness.
The Gnx bushings go between the the rear spring perches and the upper floor pan of the trunk. There is nothing there from the factory but a little hole in the perch part of the frame. The bushing just sits there. Does not get bolted to the body or the frame. The fact That it gets sandwiched between the two keeps it in there.