fuel line

[Nick Micale]

The Alky dual alky kit will raise the limits of the double pumper.

In my opinion, that thinking results in lots of engine damage?

The alky is not there to make HP, but to cool the charge and raise the point where you get detonation. You may get a little added HP with the alky, but you need more fuel, gasoline, to provide the BTU output that gives you HP. If the necessary extra fuel is NOT available, the mixture goes lean.

The HP increase with alky will come because with the cooling effect, boost and RPM can be increased. The difficult part is determining the "final" limit of this level.

Why is it that some forced induction high HP engines inject alky or even 100% water, and still develop massive HP and stay together? Most likely their fuel delivery system is capable of delivering as much fuel that is needed for their HP level.

After years of re-building many alky injected Buicks that never had any knock retard shown, but evidence of pre-ignition damage is easily recognized as the engine went lean.

What is tuning, providing enough fuel at the proper time for the HP level desired?

We overbuild our fuel systems so it is always able to supply more than is ever needed, alky injected or not.

In an alcohol fueled vehicle, it will take 3 times more alky than high octane gasoline to make the same HP, so injecting a very volatile mist into the combustion chamber without enough gasoline will be disastrous.

 

[USMC_Turbo6]

In my opinion, that thinking results in lots of engine damage?

The alky is not there to make HP, but to cool the charge and raise the point where you get detonation. You may get a little added HP with the alky, but you need more fuel, gasoline, to provide the BTU output that gives you HP. If the necessary extra fuel is NOT available, the mixture goes lean.

The HP increase with alky will come because with the cooling effect, boost and RPM can be increased. The difficult part is determining the "final" limit of this level.

Why is it that some forced induction high HP engines inject alky or even 100% water, and still develop massive HP and stay together? Most likely their fuel delivery system is capable of delivering as much fuel that is needed for their HP level.

After years of re-building many alky injected Buicks that never had any knock retard shown, but evidence of pre-ignition damage is easily recognized as the engine went lean.

What is tuning, providing enough fuel at the proper time for the HP level desired?

We overbuild our fuel systems so it is always able to supply more than is ever needed, alky injected or not.

In an alcohol fueled vehicle, it will take 3 times more alky than high octane gasoline to make the same HP, so injecting a very volatile mist into the combustion chamber without enough gasoline will be disastrous.

That's great info. So do I need to upgrade my fuel pump to support the motor that I have in my signature. An if so what fuel pump do you recommended that I upgraded to. Better yet I will give you a call

 

[Pronto]

No doubt running alky is playing with fire and fuel system that is up to snuff is a requirement for the projected hp. I should have added hp limit. Meaning that the alky will add hp via the cooler charge allowing more boost vs the same volume of 93 octane alone. I know of several double pumpers running high 9s. One I know was using alky. Alternatively, one large pump might be a better choice. Different ways to get the job done depending on your goals. I know many run 10s on stock lines but to me, I see the lines and fitting as a restriction that needs attention.

 

[USMC_Turbo6]

That's great I see it that way to. Have see and read how guys cae leaned out and blown up. Would you use a holly 12-890 hi flow single inline pump that from what I have found will support 900hp on a EFI or the holly 12-1400 is a double pump inline pump that's will support about 1400 if I'm not mistaken?

What would it take for me to change to a external inline fuel pump

 

[Reggie West]

USMC you have more than enough pump and injector for that motor.

Keep the double pumper you have for the fun of it. Once you replace the fuel line you are good to go.

Im running a double pumper and alky on my car. On the street the boost is set at 21 psi, I turned the Hobbs switch up to kick in at 25 psi because there was too much fuel with both of them on. I run a single nozzle alky kit too. I cant see you needing both pumps running unless you are shooting for a 9 second time slip, then maybe.

 

[Pronto]

If you don't want to run a double pumper you could run this- http://www.racetronix.biz/itemdesc.asp?ic=FPS-G7W416EAN&eq=&Tp=
With new lines this could put out all the fuel you'll need with an intank design.

 

[USMC_Turbo6]

USMC you have more than enough pump and injector for that motor.

Keep the double pumper you have for the fun of it. Once you replace the fuel line you are good to go.

Im running a double pumper and alky on my car. On the street the boost is set at 21 psi, I turned the Hobbs switch up to kick in at 25 psi because there was too much fuel with both of them on. I run a single nozzle alky kit too. I cant see you needing both pumps running unless you are shooting for a 9 second time slip, then maybe.

When it's all said and done I'm looking for a 9.80 time slip. An I want to do it right the first time. I will not always push the car to that point but it will be good to know that I could if I want to. I also can get my hand on a A1000 pump for free if I need to.

 

[USMC_Turbo6]

If you don't want to run a double pumper you could run this- http://www.racetronix.biz/itemdesc.asp?ic=FPS-G7W416EAN&eq=&Tp=
With new lines this could put out all the fuel you'll need with an intank design.

That's not a bad ideal and still keep it stock looking

 

[qws2000]

Reggie, did you see the pictures of some of the stuff I got for the stroker.....

 

[USMC_Turbo6]

Pronto, did some read on the walbro pump its a walbro 400 and they also make a walbro 450 to. A lot of good reviews on it and I spoke with a board members that know someone running that's pump setup on a V8 regal and like is. So I may to that way. I thank I'm going to over build so I have way I need and then some. So I have a double pump coming up for sale soon

 

[Pronto]

Off the Racetronix website on the 430lph:
Q2. How much HP will this pump support?
A2. Multiply your HP by 0.42 which will give you the required fuel in LPH with a 20% safety margin. You must consider the flow at your maximum boost pressure. For example, if you base fuel pressure is 43.5PSI and your your regulator increases 1LB of fuel pressure for every 1LB of boost and you run 20PSI of boost your maximum fuel pressure would be 63.5PSI. Using the flow data above, confirm that this system is able to provide the required flow at your maximum fuel pressure and voltage. This calculation does not factor restrictions in the fuel lines. Since the condition of each system tends to vary it is best to run a return flow test at max fuel pressure once the system is installed to determine if upgrading the fuel lines is required. (i.e. At a base pressure of 43.5PSI + 30LBS boost (73.5PSI fuel pressure) this pump will support apx. 900FWHP @ 13.5VDC.)

I suppose a volt booster could be used with it as well...

 

[USMC_Turbo6]

I read all of that. Just hope that's not all made up number meaning they just did some math and came up with that. But did some real world testing. That will back it up!!!!!!!!

 

[Pronto]

I suppose you can ask in this thread.
http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/threads/new-racetronix-416lph-e-85-pump-ss-sender-combo.386869/

 

[Ttype6]

With the info that I have in my signature will the double pumper provide the fuel that is needed to get the best out of the motor? Or do I need to step up on the fuel pump?

Red Armstrong uses the same double pumper set-up that you have to run high 8s at 150 mph in the quarter with stock unmodified supply and return lines and stock fuel rail.. My set-up makes 700 hp with E85. Because we need 30 % more fuel,when we run E85,my motor is using the same amount of fuel as a 900 hp motor running on gasoline. These pumps,you have,aren't close to their limit with your set-up. If your fuel pressure rises one for one with boost,you don't have a fuel delivery problem. To get the most out of your pumps,you'll need to run Red's volt booster and hotwire the pumps.

 

[Ttype6]

This local car has run 10.2 on race gas with a double pumper with 2 Walbro pumps on 116 race gas, 75# injectors, and pulled 516 RWHP on e-85 at 23 psi using a TE-45a turbo and 120# injectors.

USMC_Turbo6,In this example,that Nick is providing for you,the motor is making 650 hp on E85. This means that his pumps are supplying the same amount of fuel that an 800hp gasoline motor would need. If he is running two 255 lph Walbro pumps,this is good news for you as the pumps you are running outflow the ones in this example. 800hp on gasoline would be enough to get you your occasional 9.80,provided you can leave hard enough. Again,your set-up will outflow the one in this example. You're good.

 

[USMC_Turbo6]

Ttype, You have hit the nail on the head with what I wanted to know. I will check and change out the pump that I have to ensure that I have the right and the best pumps to use, or if you have a better pump that I should use on my double pump please let me know. If I can save some money that would be great. I do have a volt booster and a racetronix hot wire kit. Or do I need to hotwire it some other way.

 

[Mr.Spool]

you don't have enough turbo for a double pumper and duel nozzle alky with 83lb injectors.65lb injectors on a single pump and duel nozzle alky with pump gas has been high 9's.

 

[USMC_Turbo6]

you don't have enough turbo for a double pumper and duel nozzle alky with 83lb injectors.65lb injectors on a single pump and duel nozzle alky with pump gas has been high 9's.

I'm getting a new turbo soon (Maybe a 6765dbb). Everything that I'm doing it for a 9's build. An I rather over build and have to much then not have what I need. The build is still growing into what I have in my mind and see for my car.

 

[Ttype6]

Ttype, You have hit the nail on the head with what I wanted to know. I will check and change out the pump that I have to ensure that I have the right and the best pumps to use, or if you have a better pump that I should use on my double pump please let me know. If I can save some money that would be great. I do have a volt booster and a racetronix hot wire kit. Or do I need to hotwire it some other way.

If,as your sig says,you have Red's double pumper,you should be good. Are you unsure that your pumps are XPs. I prefer the method Red uses to boost the voltage,but what you have will work fine and your hotwire is a very good one.

 

[USMC_Turbo6]

If,as your sig says,you have Red's double pumper,you should be good. Are you unsure that your pumps are XPs. I prefer the method Red uses to boost the voltage,but what you have will work fine and your hotwire is a very good one.

I'm unsure of the pump band, because they where in the car when I got it. i have had the car about 4 years now so I may change them out to be on the safe side. An the best replacement are the walbro 255lph?