GIRDLE vs. BILLET MAINS

[re-evaluating]

Who me?

Hey Sully I have lost 2 hard drives in the last few weeks and lost everything in between.. Last one I got was about tire size and RPM if I remember and I answered that one. Send it again and I will answer even if I have to make up the answer..

Back to the thread.. In 2002 I had a girdle and stock caps made a few 130 MPH passes and broke the crank. The crank took the two center caps out of the motor or the caps took out the crank.. Long story short I now have 4 steel caps and a girdle, you know just the way it came from the factory....

 

[Ttype6]

Re: I know, I know, pick me I know!!!!!!!

Originally posted by re-evaluating
King David and the motor is all stock like all TSM cars..
The winner in the T.S.M. class,at the GS nationals,in 2002,2003,and 2004 was Jason Cramer. His motor uses the factory crank,rods,caps ,and balancer with a girdle that he sells through his company R.J.C. Racing. This is'nt stock. His motor makes 800 hp. No one has done this with a stock block without a girdle. The question asked in this thread was" Wich is stronger,steel caps alone or a girdle?" The answer is a girdle. Would steel rods and caps and a billet crank be stronger? Yes.
Jason has run 9.89 @ 136mph.

















And I don't mean me....... But my stock block does wear a girdle.

 

[re-evaluating]

You said current TSM record holder!

Originally posted by Ttype6
The girdle and stock caps will handle more power than steel caps alone. The current T.S.M. record holder runs stock caps,girdle,stock crank,stock balancer,and stock rods.

Not trying to bust your stones here or disrespect my friend old Jason in any way, but you said "the current T.S.M. record holder". We all were assuming you were referring to either ET or MPH of which Jason holds neither... The current King of TSM is Dave Bamford (TOP GUN) his car went 9.57 at 142 plus MPH with no girdle just steel caps.. His new motor DOES have a girdle installed from what Jason has stated here before.

The "it's all stock" is the answer some of us give when asked what we are using for anything before we give the real answer. It is kind of like the "rule" you aren't allowed to run more than 24 lbs of boost in TSM. It is all in fun. Like I stated before I would not run without a girdle but steel caps work well too, I use both..

As far as Jason wining TSM at BG for 3 years strait nobody is more aware of that than me since I am the one that lost to him in the finals 2004. Jason has done a lot with the parts he is using and always done it with class. We sell all his products and I recommend using the girdle but to say no one has ever gone faster than 9.89 @ 136 without one is incorrect.

For what it is worth my car has been 9.7's @ 139.9 @ 25lbs of boost and I won the 2004 TSM points championship.. Keep in mind it is all factory stock.... TSM 2005 should be a killer year and see a lot more fast cars. Hope I clarified things a little and didn't offend you in doing so..

 

[Cheeseburger]

I just did a girdled motor, and it is a fairly easy install.
However the shims are a p.i.t.a. to get perfect and when you get down to single shims .002, they cut your fingers nicely
Talking to a well known engine builder, he does not like the girdle and prefers steel caps.
Crank flex is your worst enemy if using the stock cast crank.
Good luck!

 

[Ttype6]

Re: You said current TSM record holder!

Originally posted by re-evaluating
His new motor DOES have a girdle installed from what Jason has stated here before.

I would not run without a girdle but steel caps work well too, I use both..

I am the one that lost to him in the finals 2004. To say no one has ever gone faster than 9.89 @ 136 without one is incorrect.

Hope I clarified things a little and didn't offend you in doing so..

I'm going to guess that the reason he now runs a girdle is because he found evidence of cap movement. I would also guess that he did'nt use a stock crank. We all seem to agree that a girdle is the way to go. I guess the fastest car does'nt always win the race. What I was trying to say was that no one has made over 800 hp. with a stock block without a girdle. You did'nt offend me. P.S. My motor is dead stock right at 600 hp.

 

[S2V6RACER]

Re: Re: You said current TSM record holder!

Originally posted by Ttype6
I'm going to guess that the reason he now runs a girdle is because he found evidence of cap movement. I would also guess that he did'nt use a stock crank. We all seem to agree that a girdle is the way to go. I guess the fastest car does'nt always win the race. What I was trying to say was that no one has made over 800 hp. with a stock block without a girdle. You did'nt offend me. P.S. My motor is dead stock right at 600 hp.

Dave B. and Tony O. have made in excess of 800 HP without a girdle. I know RPM's had a BIG reason to put the girdle on this time in Daves case. Maybe Brick can chime in here on the HP figures, he had them figured out last year. He knows something about Daves combo he might share with us(hopefully).

 

[Ttype6]

Re: Re: Re: You said current TSM record holder!

Originally posted by Ted A.
I know RPM's had a BIG reason to put the girdle on this time

You're probably right. If you can make the power at a low rpm you might get away with it. Reving higher is a good and common reason to strengthen the bottom end. The girdle provides the added strength needed. So we once again agree that the girdled block is stronger than no girdle. It was'nt too long ago that we found it hard to believe that any kind of stock block would ever be able to hold together at 600 hp. What a testiment to Buick. You can't talk about the history of American automobiles without mentioning the significant contribution these Buicks have made.

 

[1 OF 1035]

anyone have pictures of this girdle and the installation

 

[benoitthegr8]

WOW, I WAS JUST TRYING TO GET SOME OPINIONS ON THIS SUBJECT. DID'NT FIGURE THERE WOULD BE THIS KIND OF RESPONSE.

 

[Raymond Bunch]

LOL!

Originally posted by benoitthegr8
WOW, I WAS JUST TRYING TO GET SOME OPINIONS ON THIS SUBJECT. DID'NT FIGURE THERE WOULD BE THIS KIND OF RESPONSE.

These guy's have been there and done that and take it seriously. That's why beginners like me pay strict attention to what their saying

 

[Louie L.]

Girdle and stock caps are the way to go.

 

[Turbo38V6]

Billet Centers here.

 

[grey1]

Just building a motor now...............as we read... Are studs for the mains good or better than stock? 1/2 2 B. I'm also goin with head studs. No a/c. I just beat the **** out of all that plastic crap that held the a/c unit to the firewall. Once I got into it , I had to hammer it to fit, and paint it to match,

 

[cdsttype]

I use a girdel & eagle crank & stock caps.
The one main draw back no one has mentioned is trying
to work around the girdle.If you dont build engines ask your
builder steel caps for easy basic bearing maintence,but
you want to run 10s my question is how many 10s the girdel
and a good balanced crank is a must for durability.
I dont care who you are or what you have for a car you will hurt
the bearings in these engines as they always have for years!

 

[86brick]

Re: Re: Re: You said current TSM record holder!

Originally posted by Ted A.
Dave B. and Tony O. have made in excess of 800 HP without a girdle. I know RPM's had a BIG reason to put the girdle on this time in Daves case. Maybe Brick can chime in here on the HP figures, he had them figured out last year. He knows something about Daves combo he might share with us(hopefully).

Well according to the HP calculator that I use (as well as most engine builders like Mr. Strezo himself) Dave's old stock block motor (without girdle) was making a little over 900hp at the FW to propel his 3560lb GN to 9.571 @142.36.... Now his new motor (with girdle installed) appears to be making about 960fwhp so far to run 9.30's @146...

Now as far as knowing something about Dave's combo you lost me here Ted All I know is what I've seen posted on here.... Maybe you were just being a SOB

 

[Jerryl]

"Opinions are like ........ (You know how to fill in the blanks)"
Here is mine.
Please understand that I am NOT, and never have, build a 10 second motor.

If I had the motor apart to build a 9-10 sec motor, I would have both the steel caps and girdle installed, AND, have ARP studs plus have the crank tested for possible hairline cracks. I have read (same pics you saw probably) about caps breaking and I can see the benefit of a girdle. Cranks can break too.

Why roll the dice for a few extra hundred dollars if you already have an easy couple of $G's in the engine?
Again, just an opinion

 

[S2V6RACER]

Re: Re: Re: Re: You said current TSM record holder!

Originally posted by 86brick
Now as far as knowing something about Dave's combo you lost me here Ted All I know is what I've seen posted on here.... Maybe you were just being a SOB

I thought you guys had a discussion about the buildup, maybe I mis-understood that. Heck, from what I read here he has pretty much described the buildup. As far as being a SOB, you know be better than that.

 

[twin 93 svt]

Four billet caps here and a billet crank, like every other high r.p.m. A.N.S. motor, motor has pulled hard to the 74-7600 range, see you in Bowling Green!

 

[benoitthegr8]

The build up is as follows: SG1 crate block, stock crank turned 10/10, .30 over TRW slugs, ARP fasteners for the rods, main, and heads,match ported stock heads and intake w/ big valves, 208/208 flat tappet cam, GM lifters, chromoly push rods, Champion A/C delete, steve monroe prted stock TB, CAS V4 I/C, PT-61, ATR 3" SS DP, 3" singleshot, 60lb Inj, 340 Walbro, Built Trans w/ 3400 stall conv, All poly bushings in the rear, aluminum drums, Boxed LCA's + relocation bracket, Adj UCA's, some Glass items to drop the weight and also the regular bolt on stuff, MAF tube, Voltbooster, Ect. I'm debating on going with a roller cam or staying with the flat tappet. The issue being that all the lifter valleys in this block have been corrected, possibly eliminating the issue of wiped lobes. And I decided that I will be going with an engine Girdle. Thanks for your replies.

Ben

 

[86brick]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: You said current TSM record holder!

Originally posted by Ted A.
I thought you guys had a discussion about the buildup, maybe I mis-understood that. Heck, from what I read here he has pretty much described the buildup. As far as being a SOB, you know be better than that.

You're right he has described the buildup on here... You're still an SOB