Girdles...when do you really need to install?

[GSTOY]

I'm curious, at point does one really need to install a girdle? Are we talking 12.0 and lower, 11.5 and lower, 10.99 and lower? What is the magic number that you would say you would be absolutly crazy not to run one?

The reason I ask is that I'm almost ready to get the short block done on my engine, and this would be the time to do it, but realistically I don't know that I can really justify the expense of the RJC Girdle and machining if my real goals are a mid to upper 11 sec car. Mostly would be crusing around town and the once in a blue moon 1/4 mile blast, but I want it to have the stones to lay down the "darkside" attitude when needed.

I know I probably could just do the billet center main caps, and call it done, which would be cheap insurance, but the bottom line is at what point does one really need to start beefing up the bottom end?

Thanks and Merry Christmas to everyone

Steve

 

[d0n_3d]

I would just stick with the two center steel main caps. Guys run girdles on high horsepower combos running well in the 10's and 9's to keep the block from coming apart. I would guess around the 800 horse area is when to use a girdle. A girdle helps any engine block at any horsepower level but its overkill with your goals.

 

[Pablo]

For the level of performance and usage that you are looking for just build it to stock specs and you will be fine.

 

[Underboost]

my real goals are a mid to upper 11 sec car. Mostly would be crusing around town and the once in a blue moon 1/4 mile blast,

Steve

I had my stock block with 150,000mi running 11:30's daily driven and every Thurs night at the 1/8mi track. When I dipped in to the 10.80's the crank broke in half.:frown: I don't think the 18psi T-brake launches had anything to do with it. :tongue:

If your goals are Mid&High 11's get the steel mains. If you have an addictive personality with some extra cash in the bank go with the girdle because these Buick projects never end once you go 11's then you want 10's etc. etc..

 

[cruzn57]

once you drive over the crankshaft.

you went one step to far.
a good crank, and the center two mains will get you into the 10's.
and still get you home afterwards. over 25lbs boost ,and your pushing it!
listen to what the guys here tell you, most of them have been there, done that.

 

[turbonatr]

The engine in my T was built in 1995 and not even the valve covers have been off since then. No girdle. It has a little under 10,000 miles on it which were mostly put on 1/4 mile at a time. It's seen 33psi MANY times. It's been 10.70s in a 3,660lb car (with more left in it). I would guess power to be around 550hp at the wheels.

State of tune, quality of the build, how hard you hit the car on the starting line and how much power you are making all have a bearing on how long your bottom end will last.

 

[hemi8]

1 more opinion. Run a forged crank/forged rods/forged pistons and the 2 center billet steel caps. You will not have to worry about the bottom end with this set-up, assuming the machine work is solid. The problem I had was making too much horsepower with the factory crank and 2 billet steel caps. The crank bends in the middle when you are making real good HP and this stresses the center 2 caps so much they begin to "walk". A broken crank follows. As far as I can see, the girdle is not needed with a good forged crank because it is not going to bend. I do see alot of people with multiple oil leaks and they get really efficient at changing oil pan gaskets. Your machine shop man will like you a whole lot more if he does not have to monkey with a girdle set-up.
Just been my experiance,
Mike
86 GN

 

[meaclez]

1 more opinion. Run a forged crank/forged rods/forged pistons and the 2 center billet steel caps. You will not have to worry about the bottom end with this set-up, assuming the machine work is solid. The problem I had was making too much horsepower with the factory crank and 2 billet steel caps. The crank bends in the middle when you are making real good HP and this stresses the center 2 caps so much they begin to "walk". A broken crank follows. As far as I can see, the girdle is not needed with a good forged crank because it is not going to bend. I do see alot of people with multiple oil leaks and they get really efficient at changing oil pan gaskets. Your machine shop man will like you a whole lot more if he does not have to monkey with a girdle set-up.
Just been my experiance,
Mike
86 GN

when does the stock crank wanna give out??? high nines?

 

[boostingbuick]

I have had no oil leak issues with my girdle. Three engines with girdles and no oil leaks. The machine work needs to be correct and a good sealant.

And as far as too when. Hard to say, some have broken cranks running mid 11's and some never brake in the low 10's. I just know that the girdle ties the mains together and will distribute the load of the crank to the oil pan rails instead of a single main cap. For of cost of caps and have it machined, you can buy a girdle and have it machined for about $100 more, and have a more solid foundation. Just my .02 anyway.

 

[KevinB]

When my block cracked, the girdle was the only thing holding the crank in, but that was after a ton of 9 second passes and a few mistakes on my end.

 

[Amelio]

I kinda always lean to more with these cars.....for example if you wan a solid 11's car build an engine capable of high 10's. I would like to run solid 11.50-11.30 with my car and the engine I have built it should be very attainable. My goal is to do that with less than 25 psi which I think it will and this will keep the car running where I want it too with out tons of stress.

I always say you can never over build your engine as far as strength and safety. If you build a 10's capable engine then you can run the time you want and not have to strecth the car real hard to get it there.

I say put a girdle on it and not have that worry.....also if you ever start upgrading because you want to go faster ( like that happens...LMAO:biggrin: ) that step is out of the way and you know you have a solid bottom end!

just my opinion....

 

[meaclez]

I have had no oil leak issues with my girdle. Three engines with girdles and no oil leaks. The machine work needs to be correct and a good sealant.

And as far as too when. Hard to say, some have broken cranks running mid 11's and some never brake in the low 10's. I just know that the girdle ties the mains together and will distribute the load of the crank to the oil pan rails instead of a single main cap. For of cost of caps and have it machined, you can buy a girdle and have it machined for about $100 more, and have a more solid foundation. Just my .02 anyway.

so why not just do both? billet the 2 center mains and then girdle??? or is that unessary/over kill

 

[Nasty Wendy]

My general rule of thumb is if she weighs over 135lbs she is going to need a girdle. There are of course exceptions for really tall girls.

 

[boostingbuick]

My general rule of thumb is if she weighs over 135lbs she is going to need a girdle. There are of course exceptions for really tall girls.

Wow. I did not see this turn coming.

 

[84BuickGNYorkPA]

so why not just do both? billet the 2 center mains and then girdle??? or is that unessary/over kill

Some have done this, some have gone all out with forged crank, 4 billet caps and a girdle, what ever is right for you. My goals are similar to yours, 11-11.5 motor, I don't want a bar because I have three sons that love to ride in the car. I choose to get the girdle and use the stock crank, the motor is still on the stand as a spare, so I don't know how it will do yet.
I have witnesssed more then one car in the 10's with nothing done to the motor, even factory piston's. Now these cars have head work done and a bunch of bolt on's, just the usuall stuff. The key thing is the tune, zero detonation/knock, all year long. Good luck with what ever you decide.

Chuck

 

[GNAT87]

I have had no oil leak issues with my girdle. Three engines with girdles and no oil leaks. The machine work needs to be correct and a good sealant.

And as far as too when. Hard to say, some have broken cranks running mid 11's and some never brake in the low 10's. I just know that the girdle ties the mains together and will distribute the load of the crank to the oil pan rails instead of a single main cap. For of cost of caps and have it machined, you can buy a girdle and have it machined for about $100 more, and have a more solid foundation. Just my .02 anyway.

What sealant are you using?

 

[bison]

I dont see the need for caps and a girdle. Its adding a bunch more machine work. Girdled with a steel crank, rods, and good pistions it will live in the mid 9's with no detonaiton. The one in my sig is a stock bottom end. Many WOT blasts in the high 20's boost. About 680hp. Its a roll of the dice though.T

 

[meaclez]

I dont see the need for caps and a girdle. Its adding a bunch more machine work. Girdled with a steel crank, rods, and good pistions it will live in the mid 9's with no detonaiton. The one in my sig is a stock bottom end. Many WOT blasts in the high 20's boost. About 680hp. Its a roll of the dice though.T

Id still prolly go with a girdle and 2/3 billet mains...just as peace of mind..


has anyone around here cryo'd a stock crank???? a freind of mine swears on cryo.

 

[bison]

Id still prolly go with a girdle and 2/3 billet mains...just as peace of mind..


has anyone around here cryo'd a stock crank???? a freind of mine swears on cryo.

Its a waste of $ imo. Theres no point in spending a bunch of $ on the stock crank. If you want to build an engine that could break a stock crank then you should just go forged. Your not going to eliminate the flexing of the crank by having it cryoed. Steel caps and forged crank or stock crank and girdle.

 

[meaclez]

Its a waste of $ imo. Theres no point in spending a bunch of $ on the stock crank. If you want to build an engine that could break a stock crank then you should just go forged. Your not going to eliminate the flexing of the crank by having it cryoed. Steel caps and forged crank or stock crank and girdle.

ahh ok. i was just curious as to whats what..i dont wanna fork out money for a aftermarket crank this year. just dont wanna go to far on the stock one...(high 9s will be fine for me)