Gonna put heat in my garage finally, opinions???

[8587GN]

Good thread.I`m going through this now for my shop.30x50 with 10.6 ceiling height. I priced out the radiant tubes....$$$$$ my cost was over $950 per 20' section,so I`m going with one big hanging unit or two smaller ones.m The progamable stat sounds like a good idea. The 30x30 side for the Buicks is just getting a hanging unit

 

[NJTurbo]

Originally posted by John Larkin
Propane is sure expensive, especially if you're running your house on it. Given that information, I'd go to an alternative fuel or electric heat. Even electric heat will eat your lunch (not that gas is much of a bargain anymore either). Those little $150 standing kerosene units will go 12 hours on 2 gallons and heat 1,000 ft2. Heck, might cost you $5/weekend if you only work in the garage then. At least you could buy some time until making a final commitment.

John I agree, nothing is cheaper to run and the newer ones really only put out a smell when first turned on and shut off. Otherwise they are great. You can get 1 for $99.00 to heat 1200SQ feet, cheap, safe, and nice and warm. IMO perfect for a garage. Stay away from the torpedo's, now they really stink and we kill you in a closed area. I found out the hard way.

Gas is nice and a hanging unit is nice also. The only problem is getting it up the Ass from the gas company, they are not cheap to run and most garages are not insulated therefore you might as well just burn dollars on the floor. My vote is a Kerosene heater for the garage, save money buy more Buick parts.

 

[Buicksx2]

Hi Joe,

FWIW I have an oil furnace in my garage, years ago when I converted the house to gas I took the old furnace and put it in the garage and a buddy gave me an old oil tank.

Went to Home Depot and got a plemun kit and duct work and pieced it together myself, only problem I had was the oil company wasnt too hyped on filling an oil tank in a garage because it wasnt the primary residence, but since I was a customer for 5 years the guy reluctantely filled it.

Not sure how much you plan to use it but I only use mine when I am out there and I flick the switch and come back in 20 minutes and its just enough to take the chill out of the air, then again a NH chill is probably worse than a NJ chill.

Best of luck Joe.

 

[jmidolo]

Garage is insulated...only way to go. In the summer the AC will go in too

 

[NoNos38]

We have a big propane modine hanger unit in the machine shop that works great..

My dad put a heater that burns (CORN) in a smaller shop.. this unit is good for 1,000 to 2,000 S/F, and saves him alot of $$ in the winter.. I think it burns around one bushall of corn a day if its really cold out...

Matt

 

[turbosam6]

If you're going to put central air in as well, then I would install a package unit, that has forced air heat and air. These sit outside, so they take up less room in the garage, and you duct them in. Put the cold air return down low, and you can put the deliverys in the ceiling or whatever you want. It will be easier to install, and will take up less room. The best part is not having to install a flu pipe, or run gas into the building. Thats how I'm going to do my garage, when I get off my lazy butt. You know how it is, I do heating and air conditioning for a living, so naturally, my garage has nothing in it right now. Kinda like the body shop guy with the rusted out primered car.

 

[BobbyBuick]

Joe Im in the business.have been for almost 30 years.your cheapest and best valued solution is to use a residential forced air furnace. I have 28x30 with 10 ceilings and 100mbh will run away with it.remember the bigger the furnace the faster your goin to have to fill the propane.you shoud be able to find a dealer locally with a scratch and dent or something that was installed by accident and removed.look for that or a wholesaler.Janatrol or Goodman are very competitive and you can buy one new for about 500.00.I just found a buddy a Trane at work for 300.00..If you dont mind taking up floor space just set it upflow and cut the return in the side.install a plenum and cut 3 -10" elbows in the 3 sides pointing them slightly downward and arrage them to cover the entire space aprox 30degrees.if you do not want to take floor space hang it horizontal.A100mbh furnace is about 1200 cfm.
6"=100cfm
8"=200cfm
10"=400cfm
12"=600 cfm
Return grill needs to be no less than 20x20
I have mine installed similar to Big Daddy in the attic and a concentric duct package in the ceiling.blows out four ways and pulls back in the center.I agree with everything he said in his posts.I was goin to put the unit in the back attic and put one return in the ceiling and take a 14" trunk to to front overhead door wall and split to 2-12" slot diffusers then I found this concentric at work left over.
I really dont recommend 4 way or round diffusers in this type of installation as you need a nozzle effect to get the air to the floor and i dont think you really care to feel the warm air.this will make the system more efficient

 

[BobbyBuick]

Oh thay make something called a litestat also .kinda pricy but it has a lites on setting and a lites off setting .I set mine 45 off and 65 on.cost 185.00 wholesale ouch

 

[EightSecV6]

My garage at home is 28x32 with a 10' ceiling, I have a Dayton unit hanging in the corner, it is 45,000 btu and runs off the gas line. It is ultra quiet and heats extremely well. I got the formula for sizing out of the Grainger catalog and I think the one I bought is a little bigger than I need. I have insulated / sheetrock walls and doors. The only tricky part was cutting the hole in the ceiling and roof to slide the chimney through (4" round steel ductwork).I put a piece of 2" angle across the rafters and suspended it from 2 lengths of 1/2" allthread. I put the thermostat on the wall in the center of the garage, it works like a champ.
My shop is 50x100 with 15' ceilings, it is insulated and I have a 150,000 btu unit hanging (oil) in one corner and a 100,000 (oil) hanging in the other corner. We have un-insulated steel doors and the oil bill is usually about $600-$800 annually to keep the shop 65-70 degrees, 10 hours a day.

 

[turbosam6]

Hey Bobby and Big daddy, I agree with your opinions, except for he wants to add central A/C. In this particular application, I think the package unit might be better. I haven't been doing this 30 years, but I've been doing it for over 10, and have done my fair share of garages. Although most don't have central A/C. But a lot of the bigger "shops" do, and they all have package units. Besides, its always nice to save space in a garage, we all now how valuable room is.

 

[BobbyBuick]

A package unit has many advantages. no flue to run,no worry of products of combustion around the burner,no room pressure worries.a Very good option however in the midwest for us anyway it is more costly on systems of the 2-3 ton size.my cost on a commercial packaged unit is upwards of 12-1300 dollars.however janatrol probably has one for less than 1000.I know in the southern region of the us they are used more often in residential applications and are probably more competitive.Its like building your GN theirs always more then one option.A packaged unit is a very good one

 

[jmidolo]

Originally posted by turbosam6
for he wants to add central A/C. In this particular application, I think the package unit might be better.

Actually, I have a large 220 wall mount ac unit I was going to use. So I dont have to have a central AC unit/heat pump all in one. Heat alone should work fine

 

[Little6pack]

A guy up the street from me added a 2 car garage to the back of his house. I stopped to ask him how he liked it & wanted to get some info on how much it cost to build.

He took me in to show me. he had 9'or 10 ceilings. He had this cool gas wall mount heater. God the thing looked like 4 upright cpu units stacked.

I said that will heat the whole garage he said yes & very nice too.

It was a gas unit & some local NH company installed it.
Not sure if that unit comes with propaine capability?

You still need to be carefull with having correct electrical & local laws. You would not want to put your family &nice cars in jepoardy.
If you are keeping it at 45 degrees I don't think the humidity
will play that much.. My garage with no heat currently is at 45 degrees & 30 to 45 % humidity.

I notice on rainey days 70% but once the rain is gone I crack the door open for 10 mins & humididy jumps back down.

When it gets down right cold outside I fire up the propaine bullet heater to take the chill out.

The only bad thing with FHA is it blows dust around

 

[turbosam6]

You need to know that no matter what kind of furnace you put in, no manufacturer recommends using a residential style forced air furnace in a climate below 55 degrees. It creates condensation, which can rust the heat exchanger. This is a little known fact that many in the trade don't even know. Not saying I haven't seen it done, just wanted you to know for warranty purposes. Hell, just get a couple ventless gas wall mount heaters, you'll be set. I've installed these in garages before, and they work fine. They just take a little longer to heat it up, but very easy to install and can run on LP.

 

[jmidolo]

What's the rule of thumb? If it's 100k gas, it's about 80k btu when the LP kit is installed? If so, I should be looking for a min of 100k right??

 

[jmidolo]

This a decent buy?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3156309310&category=20598

 

[BobbyBuick]

based on a 75 temperature diff
wall@1098sqft r-11=7411
roof@672sqft r-19=2520
floor slab104linft r-4=1638
doors insulated steel@150sqft=7313
bld inf@80cfm=6600
door inf@500cfm=41250
total load @ 75 deltaT =66732 BTUH
NO WINDOWS FIGURED IF ANY ADD 75 BTUH per SQFT

The unit on Ebay is a Goodman(OLD MODEL #).they lose about 15% capacity on propane and other models lose very little if any.Remember the size of the furnace is input and the load is output .if your input is 100K output is 80K.Joe a 60k output should work fine either a 80 or 100,000BTUH unit would be fine.
I add 10% to the load if the system is in an unconditioned space.These #s are from your statment of the size of the garage and Im just guessing based on no real knowledge of the structure

 

[jmidolo]

damn, look at Bobby dropping the math knowledge
28x24 12ft ceilings.
the construction is 2x4, new construction, vinyl sided w/tyvek home wrap. R13 in the walls, R30 in the ceiling, R16 insulated garage door.

 

[BobbyBuick]

your talkining little change to my figures as you can see its all in the door infiltration in the building transmission your only looking at a 3000 BTUH drop.I figured a 16x7OHD and a 3X6.7 man door

 

[turbov6joe]

I've got a 29'x29' two bay garage with 15' ceilings and no insulation on the walls or ceiling. I use a WAY OVERKILL 350,000 btu commercial forced air propain floor heater. On its lowest flame and fan settings, it will keep the garage about 79º when it's in the teens outside. I climbed up a ladder to replace a burnt bulb and damn near sweat to death....I gotta get some insulation up in the rafters at least! Good winter project for me. I'm also thinking about running a dehumidfier in the enclosed trailer to keep the TTA from rusting, or the head liner from falling. I have to get on the "average pay" plan with the electric company first, then I'll run an electric heater in the garage and trailer 24/7; thermostatically controlled.