Guys using NON turbo cranks,how fast are you?I know you're out there!

[turbot2112]

nice, i guess i just have to try and tune it correctly.

 

[sixgun86gn]

We will see if that crank lives.I am stepping up to a TA block with billet crank and all that stuff.I built my shortblock when I didn't have the money to spend on the crank that is why its in there.As far as the material between the throws,it is the same on both types of cranks.I plan on seeing how far I can go with it and I am sure it will handle 10s ok.If it breaks ,who cares I have a TA motor in the works.

 

[Buicksx2]

Originally posted by turbot2112
i forgot to say that i was told by rons custom auto not to push the motor past 12.00 or i will be sorry. i think jim testa told me he snapped one in half.

>>> Don't believe what ron told ya, my wifes car and it's recipe above is living proof with a good chip (Jim Testa) and race gas it can be done. As well as others who posted here that have gone much faster. Tune it well, monitor it with a scan tool and you can run into the 11's witout a problem.

 

[Ormand]

The comment about "other engines" like BBC and SBC is totally irrelevant. Ever hear of forgings? It's an apples/pomegranates comparison. There are at least a half dozen cranks for a 350 chevy, and they run from "plain vanilla" up to a high quality alloy forging. They are NOT comparable to the old Buick V6 crank. Same is true for SBC, and for other V8 engines. I have some pieces somewhere from a 302 Ford crank that broke from low-cycle fatigue, pretty sure it didn't have rolled fillets. The Buick V6, with its funky shared rod bearings, is particularly weak. The rolled fillets increase fatigue resistance, and extend engine life. Can you run without them? Sure, its your money, you want to risk the whole engine to save the bucks for a good crank, go right ahead. It will work... for a while. We all have the choice of where to spend our money, no law that says we have to be prudent.

 

[sixgun86gn]

And YOUR point is?DUH ive heard of forgings, and STOCK cranks(sbc or ford) are not forged.How is that irrelevant.Iwas not asking for a lecture about what you think,and was not trying to sway anybody to do something they don't want to.So why do you have to criticize me?This post is for guys like me who either had to build a cheap shortblock or found out after the fact that their crank is not a turbo crank.Not a poll on your opinion of if it is foolish,but a poll on how fast they have gone.Lets keep the debate about cranks out of it.Ormand,if you haven't gone fast on a NA crank and have no input as to the strength they really are capable of....stay out.I want to see how fast I can get on a non turbo crank.Did you not see where I said I OWN a TA block?I am not cheap nor stupid.I do love to prove people wrong when they criticize me though.So now,after my 83#s come in and the new ME chip for them and the new pump,I'm going for mid 10s.I'll bet I can make 50 passes at that level and never break that crank or block,and to up the bar I don't have caps or a girdle either.What do you care anyway,its not your motor or car.

 

[WH1Driver]

My machinest gave me thumbs up to use the NA crank. He has lots of experience with race applications.

 

[sixgun86gn]

Thanks for your reply.My machinist said the same.He too does alot of race motor work.

 

[INEEDAGN]

I've got a question

Not trying to hijack the thread but I have a related question. A former owner of my car (not the one I bought it from) said he thought my crank was ground .10/.10 when the motor was redone but wasn't sure anymore. If this is true does that mean I no longer have the rolled fillets on my crank? I'm not really worried about it because I haven't blown it up yet but i'm just curious. thanks for the help.

bob

 

[frankg]

Bob, No your crank still has the fillets. Usually if machined properly, you can save the fillets up to a +.040" over crank sometimes. Frank

 

[Ormand]

Sixgun, you offered a lecture about what YOU think. I replied with what I know. If you're talking about a stock Chevy 305, or a 289 Ford, then no, they don't have forged crankshafts. But most of the high-peformance Chevy V8s have had forged crankshafts. The Boss 302 had a forged crankshaft. Other high performance engines that don't have forgings will have a stronger cast iron that the plain vanilla grandma cars. It would be hard to find a V8 of any variety with the awful overlapped rod journals that the even fire V6 has. So my point, DUH, is that comparing a V8 crank to a Buick V6 crank is not a valid comparison.
As I understand this thread, you have a good block, and you want to risk it by running a weak crank at the limit. And you don't want anyone to tell that poopoo stinks. Fine, it's your time, your money.

 

[noslo6]

NA Crank

I ran an NA crank for over 5 years of punishment. My car ran 11.60's with 1.60 60ft. Never missed a lick at the track. One day, just crusing down the highway at about 2000 rpm, crank snapped. It must have developed a crack or something. FYI, it broke right at the rod journal edge where it did not have the rolled fillet on number one. Luckily, it was up front and it stopped the balancer and crank signal and shut the engine off almost immediately. I had very minimal damage, broken crank (of course), one broken rod and the piston attached got smacked by the counterweight as it came back around. Other than that, I put it all back together - new forged pistons and a turbo rolled fillet crank (cryogenic treatment to boot). If I hadn't found this turbo crank, I would have put in another NA crank and had it cryo'd. Only costs about $100 and should help the strength considerably. The NA cranks work fine, just don't know the threshold of power they can withstand.

 

[Bruce Alred]

I personally know of a car that has gone 9.8's with a non-turbo crankshaft.

 

[Intercooler]

Originally posted by Bruce Alred
I personally know of a car that has gone 9.8's with a non-turbo crankshaft.

Do tell!


I wonder is their is a test that could be performed to see what each one would break at?

 

[BlackBandit]

Just a little food for thought. With the mass production of auto parts, especially in the eighties (sniff..snifffffff ) I wouldn't hesitate to say that one N/A crank running in the 9's or even the 11's is no gaurantee that the next one wouldn't snap in the 12's. Of course I suppose the same applies to the R/F crank as well, but it's probably a little more reliable. That said I have a N/A crank sitting around and, after reading this thread, I would say that there's a fairly strong possibility that it might just find it's way into my buick until I can afford to build the motor I really want.

 

[noslo6]

I wouldn't be scared to do it again. I had good luck with it....for 5 years anyway. But as much punishment as I put mine through in those 5 years, I wouldn't have expected anything different from a RF crank. 5 years between rebuilds is cool with me. I can only HOPE this new engine lasts that long!!!

 

[J Banning]

I have a N/A crank in my motor.

10.97 @ 120mph is the best run to date.

This engine has approx 200 1/4 mile passes on it. Almost all of them are 11.99 and quicker.

-Banning.

 

[sixgun86gn]

Sounds like that rolled fillet thing doesn't hold much water now.I think it might help a little,but not as much as everybody believes.All the naysayers here have never used a NA crank,yet continue to argue.Ain't that right Ormand?Guess you don't know jack squat bud.I want to see the results of this testing and development process that Buick supposedly used to find this oh so great rolled fillet (or is that rolled billet from the prices?)design.I think it is just a theory and has never had all this NASA style testing done.If it has then show me the proof please.I too would have much rather used a true turbo crank,but saw no reason to spend the money in that area.Kind of like the 70mm throttlebody debate.Thanks guys for all the posts,and Bruce I really want to hear about this 9.8 run because I wasn't thinking a NA crank could be that strong.I really just wanted to see what these cranks are capable of and a debate got started.

 

[Chris McDade]

Do you know how many NA cranks i've thrown away? Alot. I might keep them now

We all want the rolled fillet crank because BUICK said they where stronger. The crank issue is kind of like the 109 block issue. We said that there is no way someone could runs 9's on a stock 109 block. Well we know now that is not true. The only why to find out is to due it. We keep pushing the 109 blocks, so why not push the NA cranks as well. It all depends wheather you have a girdle or just main caps. I think it would live longer with the girdle. I might just build a motor with a NA crank and see what happens.

just venting...

Good luck to all running NA cranks I would like to see how far you can push them.

 

[sixgun86gn]

I think they should make a super budget drag racing class.The rules should state Hyper pistons,NA crank,stock rods,home ported heads and intake,stock headers and throttlebody with any turbo or off the shelf cams except rollers.That would be cool.

 

[TurboBuickSix]

Originally posted by sixgun86gn
I think they should make a super budget drag racing class.The rules should state Hyper pistons,NA crank,stock rods,home ported heads and intake,stock headers and throttlebody with any turbo or off the shelf cams except rollers.That would be cool.

Yeah,just have the track put a few extra clean up crew guys on that day,And make sure there a plenty of brooms and shovels available.