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Guys using NON turbo cranks,how fast are you?I know you're out there!

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A rolled fillet does NOT make a crank "stronger". It makes the crank more resistant to failure due to metal fatigue, which eventually forms a crack. Typically, a crank (with no obvious defects) will fail after many, many cycles due to fatigue in a high stress area. Typically, this will be in one of the fillets, since these areas act as stress risers in the material.

By rolling the fillets, the material in those areas end up with a very high amount of compressive residual stress. By doing this, the material in those areas will last longer before it fatigues. The modern nodular and cast iron crankshafts that I've been around all had rolled fillets. The fillets were rolled not to make the crank "stronger", but to improve the life of the crank in the engine.

To put this more simply: A N/A crank and a turbo crank will be able to take the about the same load, all other factors being equal (casting quality, material properties, etc.). However, the turbo crank with rolled fillets will last for more passes, because it will take longer for the material to reach its fatigue limit in the highly-stressed fillet areas.

Somebody had earlier mentioned that their N/A crank failed while they were driving, and that a crack had formed in one of the fillet areas. This is a classic crank failure due to metal fatigue.

One other thing - metal fatigue is a very random, hard-to-predict phenomena. Two apparently identical cranks can have very different lives in an engine, especially if they are highly stressed. Crank #1 could last for 50 passes, and crank #2 could last for 500 passes. Rolling the fillets raises the average life of a crankshaft, hopefully to a life high enough where failure never occurs.

So, if you're the type that rebuilds your engine every couple of years, an N/A crank would probably be fine. If you only want to build your engine once for a long, happy life, you're better off paying the extra $$$ for a turbo crank.

For what it's worth...
 
I wonder if somebody out there could try fillet-rolling a finished N/A crank? I wonder if that could be done without damaging the finished journals? Even if you had to cut the journals .010" under after fillet rolling, that would be a lot cheaper than making a new crank from scratch.

Any crank experts out there? With the endless supply of cheap N/A cranks, I would think that somebody could make a lot of $$$ if they could find a way to do this.

Anyone?
 
Mshar,what you said makes alot of sense.Best explanation I have heard.All I ever heard is a NA crank will break because it doesn't have rolled fillets.I never got a reason.Much more informative from you.Thanks for your input.The idea about rolling a NA crank could definitely bring the dwindling supply back up if effective.Great Idea.
 
Update: US 13 Dragway, March 20th 2005.

10.62 @ 125.45mph w/1.47 60'
(6.71 @ 100.9 in the 1/8th)

That's shifting the 1/2 & 2/3 at about 5,900rpm, and as always, NO DETONATION.
 
Very Nice!!!

Now im sure everyone is going ask how long will a NA crank last under those extreme conditions.
 
Originally posted by Chris McDade
Very Nice!!!

Now im sure everyone is going ask how long will a NA crank last under those extreme conditions.
It's been like 5-6 years now. How much does everyone expect even from a forged piece:eek:

Banning,

I thought you had plans on taking it easy? Is that just a housing swap or did you do the 400 trans? I figured the bigger housing would kill some of your 60'.


I have "The basket" ready for the pieces :D
 
It's been like 5-6 years now. How much does everyone expect even from a forged piece
My guess either one will last for hundreds of years, unless the engine is used every now and then. Sixgun86gn seems to be a little slow to understand about fatigue failures, but DID seem to catch on after mgmshar provided a detailed explanation. The threshold for fatigue failures in cast iron is about 1,000 cycles, and the failures occur less quickly at lower stress, with the lowest stress parts lasting about 1,000,000 cycles. So, if the crank is stressed to the max, you might have a failure after only 1,000 cycles, which could be just a few minutes at max rpm. Or, if the stresses are closer to the bottom of the curve, it could take 100 hours. The rolled fillets probably extend the life by at least a factor of two, and maybe much more. The forged material is at least twice as strong as the stock casting, so even without rolled fillets, it should last maybe 10 times as long. There probably aren't enough failures of Buick cranks to allow a good statistical analysis- but the GM engineers managed to convince the bean counters that the rolled fillets were a good investment.
 
My NA crank motor is still running in another car.I had gone in the 6s in the 1/8 mile on it.
 
11:30's with a stock N/A short block using stock turbo pistons and rods. I could never get this motor to blow up and I tried.

I wouldn't build a motor ($$$) around a N/A crank unless you really didn't push it past the 11:50's. Just seems like a waste of money.

But , for a cheap short block, you could pick up a 109 short block at the junk yard for $150 and stuf used stock turbo pistons and rods in it for about $50. Then a used cam and lifters for $80. Thats a cheap short block that will run in the 11's.

I should try that.
 
My Godfather of sorts, Chris Werner, was in the GN game back when it first began. He had an 86 T, and Im sure many of you know his Red race car. When Chris sold it, the new owner turned it into a cop car. It had a Duttweiler built (they were good friends), N/A V6 that broke many records. He had a 7200 stall converter in a powerglide, went through the lights at 9500+rpm, and went through the traps at 10 oh's. He used to break forged high dollar (Nascar if I remember right) cranks left and right, until he went with a race prepped N/A cast crank. That one never broke. If a builder knows what he's doing (Duttweiler), a cheap cast crank can put up with alot of abuse.
 
Originally posted by VadersV6
My Godfather of sorts, Chris Werner, was in the GN game back when it first began. He had an 86 T, and Im sure many of you know his Red race car. When Chris sold it, the new owner turned it into a cop car. It had a Duttweiler built (they were good friends), N/A V6 that broke many records. He had a 7200 stall converter in a powerglide, went through the lights at 9500+rpm, and went through the traps at 10 oh's. He used to break forged high dollar (Nascar if I remember right) cranks left and right, until he went with a race prepped N/A cast crank. That one never broke. If a builder knows what he's doing (Duttweiler), a cheap cast crank can put up with alot of abuse.

Interesting bit of information.
 
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