H&R rear sway BAD for handleing??????
- Thread starter TEST MY 6
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Thats not really a scientific comparison
a sway bar, springs, and shocks are all really just tuning tools
Can you run a heavy bar in the back and have it handle better? Yes, but it depends on the rest of your combination.
Like someone said earlier, the heavier the bar the more you keep the car level at the expense of unloading the inner tire. You will also transmit any bumps you hit mid turn to both tires with a bigger bar more so than with a smaller bar. If you drive a car with a huge rear sway bar and no front sway bar youll find it immedately wants to oversteer which is the inverse of a car with a front bar and no rear bar. Youll also find that on less than perfect pavement and hard turns you will quickly find how a bump will upset the back end much more quickly than if you were running a smaller bar.
If you want better handling your best bet is to get stiffer springs, bigger front bar, and probably the stock rear bar. With a soft spring and big bar combo you get similar roll characteristics but more brake dive and rear end squat. All that weight transitioning fore and aft is not good for handling. for example, late braking a turn with lets say a big rear sway bar and soft springs. You will get dive which unloads the rear, and then when you turn, you have compounded the likelyhood that you will oversteer because you have a relatively large rear sway bar.
in all the performance handling buildups I have ever seen with actual data in reference to G bodies and F bodies they always use either a stock rear bar or an even smaller than stock rear bar and go for the heavier springs.
Anyway, its all a tuning tool. You cant just assume that because its bigger it will be better for handling. It may feel better in the turns because of less body roll, but if you still have the stock front bar or no bar you are much more likely to induce some nasty oversteer.
this probably doesnt apply to 99% of the folks on this forum who dont really push their cars in the twisties to that point anyway
For drag racing the big rear bar keeps the torque effect from making the right rear side squat.
a sway bar, springs, and shocks are all really just tuning tools
Can you run a heavy bar in the back and have it handle better? Yes, but it depends on the rest of your combination.
Like someone said earlier, the heavier the bar the more you keep the car level at the expense of unloading the inner tire. You will also transmit any bumps you hit mid turn to both tires with a bigger bar more so than with a smaller bar. If you drive a car with a huge rear sway bar and no front sway bar youll find it immedately wants to oversteer which is the inverse of a car with a front bar and no rear bar. Youll also find that on less than perfect pavement and hard turns you will quickly find how a bump will upset the back end much more quickly than if you were running a smaller bar.
If you want better handling your best bet is to get stiffer springs, bigger front bar, and probably the stock rear bar. With a soft spring and big bar combo you get similar roll characteristics but more brake dive and rear end squat. All that weight transitioning fore and aft is not good for handling. for example, late braking a turn with lets say a big rear sway bar and soft springs. You will get dive which unloads the rear, and then when you turn, you have compounded the likelyhood that you will oversteer because you have a relatively large rear sway bar.
in all the performance handling buildups I have ever seen with actual data in reference to G bodies and F bodies they always use either a stock rear bar or an even smaller than stock rear bar and go for the heavier springs.
Anyway, its all a tuning tool. You cant just assume that because its bigger it will be better for handling. It may feel better in the turns because of less body roll, but if you still have the stock front bar or no bar you are much more likely to induce some nasty oversteer.
this probably doesnt apply to 99% of the folks on this forum who dont really push their cars in the twisties to that point anyway
For drag racing the big rear bar keeps the torque effect from making the right rear side squat.
h&r bar
I can't imagine someone having a better bar for handling, and by the way it works for hole shots !
http://motorcitynationals.com/v-web/gallery/album201/DOC5965
I can't imagine someone having a better bar for handling, and by the way it works for hole shots !
http://motorcitynationals.com/v-web/gallery/album201/DOC5965
Gary Wells
White turbo Buick trailer park trash
- Joined
- Mar 2, 2002
- Messages
- 9,778
---------------------Ed Valvo said:
Ed:
I think all references are to Paul Ferry's HR Parts & Stuff, or simply called HR, or so I thought.
This would be Paul Ferry's Bar http://www.hrpartsandstuff.com/ , So Im gathering for the street driven G-body there should be no ill effects after install and possibly some more mph gained in off/on ramps, As for on a road course pushing the car REALLY hard there would be no gain and most likely cause more unwanted understeer, SO with this being said and my G-body being a street driven car Im going ahead with this install. I hope this thread has shed more light on the topic as it has for me, Thanks!
There are four holes that need to be drilled which are very accessible to get to and not a big deal. My install went pretty good the directions seemed a little unclear at times maybe too specific at times. I was runnign outta time when I finished up so I adjusted it to the best of my understanding which was Tightning the Drivers side link and lengthen the passenger side until resistance is felt then back the other way to a neutral point, Which in my case resulted in lengethening the link only a few threads. As far as the results, I drove the car home easy and have not had a chance to get it back on the road, But what I can say is that when entering on ramps it seems as if the rear "steers" around the corner with front and it felt good on the ride home.
I would have to say that at higher speeds (40+) the car is more stable in the rear and more noticable in freeway lane changes and such. At low speed tight cornering I dont think the bar helps but I dont feel that there any negative effects, SO to answer my own post it is NOT bad but for someone that autocrosses they will have a different opinion.
scot w.
GNSperformance.com
- Joined
- Feb 19, 2005
- Messages
- 8,810
H&R bar
This was at around 65-75mph in this picture...
In my opinion your wrong! I belong to pro-touring .com and i live in the smokey mtns and we hold the RTH event here in Pigeon Forge every year with the pro-touring guys and my GN had better numbers than some of the Pro-touring cars! Look up the event next time your there and come to this years event to see for yourself how mine does! as for street & Autocross handling the H&R bar is AWSOME! I could just boil the "Z" rated autocross tires from a stop at 10-15lbs boost before the bar, Now i can't! IT WORKS! PERIOD! On these twisty mountian roads i can hang right with supras, WRX's, and just about anything and thats saying ALOT for a 3600lb 20yr old car. I love seeing the looks on there faces when they look back and i'm right at there bumper! :biggrin: I went for the best of all worlds and it's taken alot of time and planing to have a TSM engine in a street car to be able to drive 4hrs put down some mid-low 10sec runs at the strip, drive home and the following week drive it onto an autocross track and hang with corvette's. Scot w.
This was at around 65-75mph in this picture...
In my opinion your wrong! I belong to pro-touring .com and i live in the smokey mtns and we hold the RTH event here in Pigeon Forge every year with the pro-touring guys and my GN had better numbers than some of the Pro-touring cars! Look up the event next time your there and come to this years event to see for yourself how mine does! as for street & Autocross handling the H&R bar is AWSOME! I could just boil the "Z" rated autocross tires from a stop at 10-15lbs boost before the bar, Now i can't! IT WORKS! PERIOD! On these twisty mountian roads i can hang right with supras, WRX's, and just about anything and thats saying ALOT for a 3600lb 20yr old car. I love seeing the looks on there faces when they look back and i'm right at there bumper! :biggrin: I went for the best of all worlds and it's taken alot of time and planing to have a TSM engine in a street car to be able to drive 4hrs put down some mid-low 10sec runs at the strip, drive home and the following week drive it onto an autocross track and hang with corvette's. Scot w.
This was at around 65-75mph in this picture...
I put my bar on today. And, I have to totally agree with you. It flat out works!!!
scot w.
GNSperformance.com
- Joined
- Feb 19, 2005
- Messages
- 8,810
I put my bar on today. And, I have to totally agree with you. It flat out works!!!
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